Genealogy Chat

Please can some kind person help me as I do not know what to do next.

My great grandparents were
Thomas Jarman born 1865 Llanidloes Montgomeryshire occ carpenter underground
Hannah Jarman born 1868 Mountain ash Glamorganshire
Found on1901 census.
This was a second marriage for both.
Gomer Jarman on census is Thomas' son
Blodwen Jarman is Hannahs daughter by her previous marriage.Her surname should be Evans.
(my grandmother wasn't born till later she was the product of this marriage, just for info)

Are you with me so far? I have their marriage cert which has confused me even more. ! I thought it would give me their father's names, so I could trace them back on the census so that I could then get birth certs.They were married 1899
Marriage cert states Thomas' father as Thomas Jarman deceased occ Sawyer
It also states age 34 for Thomas so born 1865. occ Mason cond. Batchelor? should be widower.
Hannah Evans Age 22 Widow (correct) Leyshon Jones father collier
Hannah's age is way out she should be 31 !!!

I then went back to 1871 to find Thomas living in Llanidloes with his family. No luck I tried 1861 for a thomas (father) as a sawyer whatever that is. they are mostly farmers ,shoemakers, engine driver and I found a tollhouse keeper.!!
Between 1859 and 1865 there are 4 thomas' births, will I have to buy all certs to find him.Even if I do I can't find him on census.I checked deaths for his father before 1871 found two but not conclusive as don't know where he was born or age.

Surname goes from Jerman To Jarman so could be either I am going cross eyed worked on this since friday all Saturday and all today. So any ideas what to do next please?

Hannah is another story !!!!!

1891 is this him?

Name: Thomas Jerman
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizth
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Pentrebach
Town: Taff and Cynon
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales


Occupation: mason

Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Lower Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizth Jerman 24
Thomas Jerman 28

hi Glitter baby yes I think thats his first marriage.
Val

Hi Valerie,

Remember that it is possible that Thomas died BEFORE the 1871 census. He COULD have died the day after his wife became pregnant with the younger Thomas!

I have found this family on the 1861 census -

Thomas J Jarman
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Llangurig, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Llanidloes
Ecclesiastical parish: Bangor
Town: Llanidloes
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Newtown
Sub-registration district: Lower Llanidloes
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Daniel Davies 15
Hannah Hughes 27
Ann Elizabeth Jarman 7
Jane J J Jarman 3
Margaret Jarman 21
Margaret Ann Jarman 5
Thomas J Jarman 31
David Jones 16
Thomas E William 25

Note there is no Thomas junior!

And then there is this family where there already IS a young Thomas, BUT quite possible for him to have died between 1861 and 1865. It would be worth checking the death index to see if a young Thomas is listed.

Thomas Jerman
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish or Township: Llanidloes
Ecclesiastical parish: Bangor
Town: Llanidloes
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Newtown
Sub-registration district: Upper Llanidloes
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Jerman 32
Thomas Jerman 31
Thomas Jerman 3
Lewis Jones 23

Victoria

1881 ??

Name: Thomas Jerman
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanidloes, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Llanidloes
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street address: Terrace
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Labourer (Gen)

Registration district: Newtown
Sub-registration district: Lower Llanidloes
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Jerman 61
Ann Jerman 26
John Jerman 64
Mary Ann Jerman 4
Thomas Jerman 18
Thomas Richard Jerman 4

Wrong name for father and occupation

found death for elizabeth jarman 1897 before he married hannah in1899

found that one father John not Thomas

hi Victoria
I though of that but going to 1851 and 1861 census and checked (it feels like ) every jarman I could find in montgomeryshire and cannot get fathers occupation right .

Hi both
thanks for your input.
Thomas junior was born in 1865 so the first census he would appear on would be 1871 with parents and cannot find a thomas with or without father thomas of the right age. So thats allowing for father dying before 1871.
I have to go now thanks again will check back tomorrow if you have any more thoughts.
Val

Hi,Leyshon (leyston) Jones in 1871 gives age 28 & wife Mary. daughter Hannah 3 & son David 5.
After that loose trace of him.
Den

Hi denise
Yes thanks for that , I found that so that was how I confirmed Hannahs age ,so 22 on marriage in 1899 seems a bit out to say the least, but that as I said was another story. Her age on1901 census is 33 so that confirms that. I can't find them either, but thomas is the problem at the moment.

My main problem folks is to confirm Thomas' birthdate and he seems so elusive with his family I can't tie him down, so cannot get birthdate. Any ideas what to do next ?
Val

Hi Val,

Try Ancestry for Thomas Jarman (soundex) born between 1863 and 1867, born or living in Montgomeryshire, Wales. The max it shows on any census is 6; there are only two for 1901 (doesn't include yours); it picks up yours as Jerman in 1891; of those in 1881, just the son of John and Ann shows his birthplace as Llanidloes. It may be that if his father Thomas had died, Ann had remarried (to another Jarman??).

I wouldn't discount the info from the 1881 census too soon.

All the best

- there are three births registered, one in Montgomery and two in Newtown. Which registration district is Llanidloes? (Newtown)

There is also a Thomas Jerman wid'r, age 42, boarder in Llanidloes in 1871 - his occupation looks like Lawyer's clerk - I couldn't honestly say that the enumerator wrote Sawyer's clerk, despite his capital S and capital L being so similar.

hi Ivy,
Thanks for your suggestion but John and anne I can trace back to 1718 using the igi, which is what I did using thomas 1865 as a reference before I got his marriage cert and was disappointed his dad wasn't John. They are quite easy to follow, not my luck though !

The trouble is Llanidloes is Jarman town.....there are apparently 3 main families who intermarry ( info from Jarman of Llanidloes site) and I cannot find mine, so therefore cannot link in to any at moment.
Thanks all for your help,and its back to the census returns for me . This is going to be my brick wall................anyone got a hammer and a new pair of glasses ?........................................Val

Hi Valerie,

You have my sympathy - it loks like you are going to be chiselling for some while!

Hi Victoria, what were the occupations of those two Thomas' you found in 1861? It occurs to me that if Thomas b 1865 is a carpenter underground, then his father's sawyer work might also be underground, so that he is listed as a miner?

(Going out, will check back later)

Sorry Ivy missed your last post,I have just got off phone to Register office cause I thought I found one lawyers clerk and that thought crossed my mind.So I checked that one out as cert was typed and asked if the original was hard to read,and that sawyer could have read lawyer. Another blank, she said it was good writing so Hannah must have lied about her age and Thomas about being a batchelor as well.
I suppose that he might never have married the mother of his first child though, but thats not my immediate problem.
Back to the censusssssssssssssss