Genealogy Chat

This is probably the birth for the Lucy in the 1891; age is a bit out for Lucy's age on her marriage cert but maybe she lied so that the age differnce between her and William didn't look so great. It would tie in agewise with the death I found:

Births Sep 1877 (>99%)
Moss Lucy Romford 4a 187

Hi Tamsin

Yes, this one isn't easy;

Have found this Lucy Moss with a father Edward (bricklayer's labourer) in 1881, mothers's name Emily;

1891 England Census
about Lucy Moss
Name: Lucy Moss
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Female
Where born: Ilford, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Ilford
Ecclesiastical parish: Ilford St Mary
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Romford
Sub-registration district: Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Annie Moss 5
Betsy Moss 7
Charlotte Moss 9
Edward Moss 36
Edward Moss 3
Elizabeth Moss 11
Emily Moss 33
John Moss 1
Lucy Moss 15
Thomas E Moss 13

Afternoon All
Thank You very much for your help this is very frustrating and its realtivly recent history!

The parents on the marriage were David Smith (deceased) and Edward Moss (Builder). The witnesses don't give me any clues either Emma Matilda Moore and George Hawkins.

I did find these potentials William Henry Smith Death March qtr 1899 age 42, Edmonton 3a 266, Birth 1856 june qtr Bethnal Green 1c 277, Birth Lucy Moss ,march qtr 1872 west ham 4a 85.
Might take a punt and order the certificates and hope for the best

This might be William's death

William Henry Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 42
District: Edmonton
County: Essex, Hertfordshire, Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 266

Andy

Hi again Tamsin

Nearest deaths I can find for William: first is too old and second too young, going on age on marriage cert but ages on certs are not necessarily correct.


Deaths Sep 1899 (>99%)
Smith William Henry 49 W. Ham 4a 278

Deaths Jun 1900 (>99%)
Smith William Henry 40 W. Ham 4a 122

The death I found for Lucy also looks too young. Maybe they both lied on their marriage - or just weren't sure.

The death certs would tell you who the informant was but which one to get! I think I would go for the earliest William.

As Grannie has asked, can you give us their father's names. It's possible that Minnie was living with her grandparents so if we can find them in the 1891 (when hopefully William and Lucy were still at home) we can go forward to the 1901

Tamsin,Can you tell us who Williams father was?I have a George William Smith my gg grandfather born in 1863 in Plaistow. Annie

Thank You for your help, I got the marriage certificate yesterday. William Henry Smith was 40 when he got married on 24/05/1896 and Lucy Emily Moss was 23.
But I can't beleive Im stuck again!. I have the census mentoined above and am not 100% if this is my Minnie, I have just spent all morning at the library in front of ancestry trying to find Williams and Lucy's deaths between Minnies birth in 1897 and the potential census record in 1901 and I have found nothing, I dont know if its the name Smith or if Im just not very good at ancestry

Could be K, but there is a birth for an Elsie May Smith Sept 1897 West Ham.

Yes Thank You!, I will order the Marriage certificate now

1901?

Name: Elsie M Smith
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Adopted Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: West Ham; Plaistow, Essex, England

Civil Parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address: 53 Queens Road

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 218
Household Members: Name Age
Ada G Hutton 28
William R Hutton 38
Elsie M Smith 3

Tamsin

I think you need to get the marriage cert - it would have ages and father's names so would make searching easier. There are lot of possible deaths for William Henry Smith, an age would help.

Haven't found Minnie in 1901 yet - will keep looking.

My Grandmother has made no mention of any siblings so I assume there was none, The address on the birth certificate was 58 Russell Street, Plaistow, West Ham

Possible death for Lucy:

Deaths Dec 1899 (>99%)
Smith Lucy Emily 22 Romford 4a 287

Here is the marriage (from freebmd):
Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)

Moss Lucy Emily Bethnal G. 1c 383
Smith William Henry Bethnal G. 1c 383

There is this marraige

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)

HARRIS Sarah Bethnal G. 1c 383
Jeffrey Thomas Bethnal G. 1c 383
>>Moss Lucy Emily Bethnal G. 1c 383
>>Smith William Henry Bethnal G. 1c 383

Hi Tamson

Did she have any siblings and what is the address on the cert?

Yes I do have her birth certificate, her fathers occupation was General Labourer

Hi Tamson,

Do you have her birth cert? What was her father's occupation on it?

My great grandmother Minnie Elsie Smith was born 19/12/1897 in plaistow West Ham, Her parents were William Henry Smith and Lucy Emily Moss. According to my grandmother she was orphaned around 5 years old. Despite my searching on ancestry i can not find her parents death certificates, marriage certificate and even more annoyingly I can't even find them on a 1901 census.
If anyone can help I would realy appreciate it as I would love to show the information to me grandmother.