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Thank you Athena,
yes I did see your post, but how do you know from the listing that it is her 2nd marriage...couldn't it be her maiden name? William may have been given her maiden name??
Also, I still have his birthyear as 1856 in both 1891 & 1901 and 1859 when he married?
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I know ages should not be trusted on the marriage certificates, and he could have lied about his age. But what had he got to gain if he said 28?
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Yes, sorry - brain working too quickly, Dee. I guess you will have to buy the marriage cert and that will hopefully shed some light on that issue.
I did do a quick search for marriages of a William Palmer to an Ann circa 1850 (well, prior to William Jnr's birth) and there is one that might be worth checking out:
Name: William Palmer
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Stourbridge
County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands, Worcestershire
Volume: 18
Page: 527
There is an ANN MOSELEY on the same page.
Athena
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Dee - he probably wanted to knock a few years off his age to make it nearer to his brides!
Unless my brain has really gone wacko I worked it out that in 1887 when they wed he would really have been about 35 yrs old.
It was a common thing for people to lie about their ages on marriage certs - I have lots in my tree who did the same thing, especially when there was a large age gap between the two parties.
My grt grandad chopped 20 years off his age when he got wed the 2nd time!
Athena
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Thanks again Athena
I have seen this also - It is a possibilty
however, I have also seen a marriage in 1854 Dec 1/4 W'ton to possibly Ann Farminer
and also
Sept /14 W'ton to possibly Ann Hunt
Going that my family came from w'ton, the census took me to shropshire (Bridgnorth - not far from W'ton and it does have a W'ton postcode). The older children were from Aston Botterell, Shropshire, but I suppose it is possible that William's family were from Stourbridge (not far from W'ton either) or Wolverhampton - even though he was living in Aston Botterell at time of his marriage.
What is interesting also, is that I have been searching buriel records for William and Ellen in Wolverhampton and we cannot find them.....I thought that maybe they were buried in their birthtowns but cannot get to the records offices yet to look for them. Its a real mistery. I have looked at all possiblilities for William's buriel in W'ton, and could only find one...sent off for the certificate and its not him....the informant is E Lovatt (daughter) and he was living in a different part of W'ton and wrong occupation!
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Athena
I think he should be 31 at marriage (making him the 35 on the 1891 census)
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Hi Dee
I was going on his age of 8 yrs in 1861 and therefore a birth year of circa 1851/2, to work out his age at marriage in 1887. I have found that the correct ages are usually the ones that you can find in their early childhood - his mother/step father would have entered his age on that census so he would have been unable to lie about it himself.
If his real birth year was 1856 that means his mother/step father would have mistaken a 5yr old for an 8yr old. Hmm...possible if he was tall, I guess LOL
Regards, Athena
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Its a difficult one I know!
He gives his age in 1901 as 45 and in 1891 35, therefore he should have been 31 when he married in 1887 (not 28 as stated on the cert),
he should have been 25 in 1881 and I can only find a census giving 23 - farmer's indoor servant,
he should have been 15 in 1871 but I can only find a 17 year old
and then he should have been 5 in 1861 but we have him as 8???
his wife Ellen is not much better
in 1901 she is 40
and in 1891 she is 28
I haven't found her prior to that, I do know her father was Richard Lloyd and she also was living in Aston Botterell at her marriage in 1887.
I think I have to order both Ann's marriage cert to William Howells in 1859 and see if she is widowed and what her maiden name is. This may help me find a previous marriage to a William Palmer prior to William being born. Or it will give Ann Palmer as being her maiden name, in which case William was born illegitimately and gave William Palmer instead of William Howells as his father on his marriage cert to save face.
It may be worth me ordering the two birth certs for William...Dec 1/4 1852 Cleobury Mortimer and Sept 1/4 1854 Wellington.
What worries me is that I don't have a definite link between the William on the 1891 census and William on the 1861 census.
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