Genealogy Chat

1891 & 1901.
Would someone mind looking up the following please in above census'?
Elizabeth Madeley Born Hanmer 1850.
In previous census' she and her parents & 4 sisters were living at Brandwood Farm, Brandwood in Shropshire.
In 1886 her father died but by then the girls had gone their own ways. I have found no record of a marriage for Elizabeth and suspect she is still residing at Brandwood with other members of extended family ie, cousin/s etc.

Appreciate any help thank you.

Are you sure DOB is 1850? Not 1856?

In 1871:

Name: Elizabeth P Madeley
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Broadwood, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Middle
Town: Brandwood
County/Island: Shropshire

Beatrice Madeley 12
Charles Madeley 20
Elizabeth P Madeley 15
James Madeley 7
John H J Madeley 27
Joseph Madeley 7
Sarah Madeley 51
Sarah J Madeley 25
Thomas Madeley 23
William Madeley 18
William Madeley 55


Household looks similar in 1891:

Name: Elizabeth P Madeley
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Middle, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Middle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Middle
County/Island: Shropshire


Charles Jones 19
Beatrice Madeley 30
Elizabeth P Madeley 32 - sister
James Madeley 26
John S J Madeley 44
Joseph Madeley 26
William Madeley 35
William T Madeley 9

1901:

Name: Elizabeth Madeley
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Brandwood, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Middle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Shropshire

William Barnett 19
Charles Madeley 50
Elizabeth Madeley 45
Sarah Jones Madeley 53
William T Madeley 19

Is this her in 1901 ?

Elizabeth Madeley
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Brandwood, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Middle
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Baschurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 1

Household schedule number: 144
Household Members: Name Age

William Barnett 19 servant
Charles Madeley 50 head
Elizabeth Madeley 45 sister
Sarah Jones Madeley 53 sister
William T Madeley 19 nephew

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2551; Folio: 16; Page: 23.

next door

Thomas Madeley 52 head
Hannah Madeley 45 wife
Hannah Gee 20 niece

Aha. This will be the one I'm looking at:

Name: Elizabeth Povall Madeley
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Ellesmere
County: Flintshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 670

But there was also:

Name: Elizabeth Madeley
Year of Registration: 1850
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Ellesmere
County: Flintshire, Shropshire
Volume: 18
Page: 66

But in 1871, the address of the one I was looking at was a ditto to "Brandwood", i.e. in quotation marks like that.

And this would seem to be the one born 1850, in 1851:

Name: Elizabeth Madeley
Age: 9 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Daughter
Parent's Name: Martha *
Gender: Female
Where born: Whitchurch, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Tilstock
County/Island: Shropshire

* the usual Ancestry stupidity; her parents were Thomas and Eliza Madely, lodgers, him Agr. Lab.; not Martha Evans.

1871

This Elizabeth is actually 20 on the image not 30

Brandwood..

Elizabeth Madeley
Age: 30 (20 on image)
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841 (1851)
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah E
Where born: Hanmer, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Middle
Town: Brandwood
County/Island: Shropshire

Registration district: Ellesmere

Edward Baker 13
William Banger 12
Edward Heatley 22
Elizabeth Madeley 30 (20 on actual image)
Jane Madeley 22
Mary Madeley 18
Sarah A Madeley 4 (17 on actual image)
Sarah E Madeley 35 (55 on actual image) farmers wife
William Madeley 50 farmer

Class: RG10; Piece: 2790; Folio: 19; Page: 32; GSU roll: 838844.

Gail. x

Are we sure she has not married by 1891?

Hi Kathryn, this is so good of you...........

There appears to be several discrepancies here but that's the cnesus for you.

This is my family as I have know it for over 12 months.

Head Wm Madeley b 1820 - 1866
wife Sarah Madeley (Nee Reeves) B 1819 - 1885

Jane M. b 1848 Hanmer
Elizabeth M. b 1850 Hanmer
Mary M b 1852 Brandwood
Sarah Ann Madeley b 1854
Margaret Price Madeley b 1856.

As far as I am aware there was just the 5 daughters.

I have all their birth cert, so know their years of birth to be correct, as well as their parentage.

The letter 'P' in Elizabeths name looks promising as she too could have had the name Price like Margaret.
This was after their grandmother I think.

Don't know where the Jones comes from.........nor all those other male family members unless......they were running the farm as one big family concern.....perhaps the father Wm......hadf one of his brothers there as nephews I don't know!!!

Really appreciate this though Kathryn, will have to try and sort them all out somehow.

Hi girls, Gail it looks as though you have the right family thanks.
I haven't found a marriage for her Gail........and have been looking for her under maiden name perhaps with other family members.
I did notice two different families a while back on ancestry, but unsure which is which.

Can't access ancestry at moment as vista wont let me download image..........hence the reason its up here.

Hi Jen

There are these two families literally side by side as you say on the 1871 and it is quite confusing...

Gail. x

This is the family that I posted in 1861..........I think.........

1861

Brandwood

Elizabeth Madeley
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah E
Where born: Hanmer, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Middle
County/Island: Shropshire

Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Baschurch

George Cartwright 13
Elizabeth Hotchkiss 29
Elizabeth Madeley 10
Jane Madeley 12
Margreat Madeley 5
Mary Madeley 9
Sarah A Madeley 7
Sarah E Madeley 45
William Madeley 40 Farmer
John Mason 17

Class: RG9; Piece: 1885; Folio: 5; Page: 4; GSU roll: 542882.

Gail. x

Yes I know Gail...........think you'll find as I did, There is a place called Brandwood in Shropshire, with several farms.

One of those farms happens to be called Brandwood also .......this is my families farm, the others have different names..............also, what makes things more confusing is that there are Soooo many Madeleys in Shropshire......must all be related somehow..........you don't know which way to turn!!!

You definately have the right family Gail, that I can confirm.

Just need to find out where Elizabeth is in 1891 & 1901..........unsure whether she married.........and have found Elizabeth Madeley's liveing with other rellies named as sister etc...........though feel she cannot be the sister to any of the male members of the household, as they had no brothers..........

Making me think now............perhaps she may have married at some point..........doesn't sound too likely that any of these could be her after all.

The eldest girl Jane was my great grandmother......I have Mary and Sarah Ann's husbands and families. The only other one is Margaret, the youngest girl, found her up to 1901 in servitude.

Hiya! The household Couldbe was looking at in 1871 looks like the one you have there -- Sarah and William, with Jane, Mary, Sarah and Elizabeth.

Oh duh. I was looking at the right page -- but there indeed a veritable nest of Madeleys there, and I think I fixed on the wrong segment. Because I was working backward on the assumption she was unmarried in 1891 and 1901 ...

Now you see, if you'd started out by providing the information you've given now ...

Widowed Sarah aged 51 is the head of one, with Elizabeth P. (it's for Povall) aged 15.

William and Sarah are the heads of the other, with Elizabeth aged 20. They're both at "Brandwood".

In 1881, widowed Sarah aged 61 is still there with Elizabeth P. and other children, but the whole William & Sarah household is gone.

So I was on a goose chase.

You don't think this would be your Elizabeth?

Name: Elizabeth Madeley + George Ore Hopkins on same page
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Ellesmere
County: Flintshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 1033

In 1891:

Name: Elizabeth Hopkins
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 <<<
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George Ore
Gender: Female
Where born: Hanmer, Flintshire, Wales <<<
Civil Parish: High Ercall
Ecclesiastical parish: High Ercall
Town: Rowton
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Ercall Magna
ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Household Members: Name Age
Jane Buttery 16
Elizabeth Hopkins 40
George Ore Hopkins 45
Lizzie Hopkins 6
Beatrice M James 13


?

Sorry I cannot find her on the 1891 or 1901 so I think I am going to have to go to bed....like you say so many Madeleys in the same area...

Gail. x

Sorry I was miles behind ....getting me cocoa...looks like Kathryn is cracking the case......

Gail x

Not to worry Gail thanks for all the great work.

Kathryn, you could well have something there.....it could ber her, I will have to look into it. I do appreciate it Many thanks to all.

Not to worry Gail thanks for all the great work.

Kathryn, you could well have something there.....it could be her, I will have to look into it. I do appreciate it Many thanks to all.

Yes Gail......go for it Kathryn.......any sign of 1901?

Cheek!!!!

Just to follow on from Kathryns good work from last night here is the 1901 of the Catherine Hopkins she found re possible marriage to George Ore Hopkins

1901

Elizabeth Hopkins
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George O
Where born: Hanmer, Flintshire, Wales

Civil Parish: Ercall Magna
Ecclesiastical parish: Rowton
Town: Rowton
County/Island: Shropshire

Elizabeth Hopkins 50 born Hanmer Flintshire
George O Hopkins 55 born Shropshire, farmer
Lizzie Hopkins 16 born Shropshire

Class: RG13; Piece: 2561; Folio: 59; Page: 1.

No address that I can see but in the 1891 that Kathryn posted the address is Rowton Villa so could be they have not moved.

Gail. x