Genealogy Chat

Hi

Clara Roberts c1876 married Arthur Layland c1876 in 1896 in Birmingham/Warwickshire.

They had 2 children Livinia Clara Ada Layland c1897 and then they had Percy Layland c1901. My step mom believes that Percy was sent to a Blue Coat school. However theres no further information on Percy.

Arthur left Clara to go to Australia "to seek his fortune" In the meantime Clara met a man called Cameron. I asked stepmom the other day who was his first name and it is David and he comes from Scotland and Clara had another family with "David". He might have been older than Clara. Clara moved to Scotland Musselborough.

There was a theory that Arthur was shot in the Australian Gold Rush.

I have seen Clara with Arther on the 1901 with their children but nothing further at all.

Clara could have married David under her maiden name of Roberts or her marrige name of Layland

Sorry for rambling on but hopefully one of u can help please?

Many thanks

Clare

Here is Percy on the 1901 census

1901 England Census
about Percy Layland
Name: Percy Layland
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Arthur
Mother's Name: Clara
Gender: Male
Where born: Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Sutton Coldfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Sutton Coldfield Holy Trinity
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Sutton Coldfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 81
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Layland 25
Clara Layland 25
Livinia Layland 4
Percy Layland 1

Hi Stephanie

Thanks for that information.

I did have that information. Only i dont have any info after 1901 like Clara with David

Thanks for looking up

Clare

Arthur Layland -- probably not a hugely common name in Australia?

So I thought maybe this could be his death in NSW:

3586/1905
LAYLAND ARTHUR
father: JOHN
mother:ELIZABETH
place: WOLLONGONG

Except I see from the 1891 that his parents were Edward and Ada. Just coincidence, I guess, unless there were some reason his parents would be misstated when he died.

Here's where to search in NSW, and to order certificates, in case you want to check it out:

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Many thanks for that information will certainly look it up tomorrow when im wide awake! lol

Thanks again

Clare

ps still looking for clara and david though

ps looked up that site u told me... and searched up to 1950 only just 1 match 1905 no matches for remarriage for arthur

David and Clara I'm not helping with I'm afraid -- but here's a bit of news that may be of interest. Now, I'm known for occasionally going off the deep end, but try this out.


This must be your Percy's birth, in the GRO index:

Name: Percival Douglas D Leyland
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Aston
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 473


And he looks an awful lot like this fellow:

Names: LAYLAND , PERCIVAL DOUGLAS
Regimental number: 742988
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 5477 - 25

-- the actual record says PERCY, not Percival.


And where is this record?

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/cef/001042-100.01-e.html

Soldiers of the First World War -- Canadian Expeditionary Forces.


If you go to that link and search simply for surname:Layland, you'll find him. And then you click on his name, and then on the icon for front-of-page, and you can see the image of his handwritten enrolment form.

His next of kin is stated to be Ada Layland, grandmother, in Birmingham. And sure enough, here is his father Arthur's household in 1891:

Ada Layland 41
Arthur Layland 15
Edward Layland 43
Ernest Layland 17
Sidney Layland 8

Interesting that he did not name his mother. This could be because of estrangement from her and her new household, or because she had died.

(The info and image can also be accessed at Ancestry.ca, but the Cdn govt sites are of course free of charge.)

On edit: Aha. Percy (like many others, including one of my uncles) lied about his age to enrol. He signed up in March 1916, when he would have been just 16, if that. He stated that he was born in 1891 rather than 1900.


The good news is that he does not appear in the Virtual War Memorial:

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/virtualmem

so he survived WWI.

There are a few other Laylands from Birmingham in the Cdn Exp Forces, but they don't seem to be directly related.

Percy was living in the province of New Brunswick when he enrolled. He does not seem to have been here in the 1911 census, unsurprisingly.


Now, here's what I was wondering in the first place:

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/02011003_e.html

A facility to search for children who came to Canada as Home Children, e.g. through the Barnardo's homes. Did Percy come to Canada as a Home Child? It's estimated that 10% of the Cdn population descends from Home Children who were sent here, beginning in the mid-1800s, supposedly for adoption, but often for a life of drudgery as farm labour and the like. My grandmother's sister's husband was a Home Child who seems (in the 1911 census) to have been in that situation. He went on to farm in his own right, and prosper.

So I checked there. And we're lucky I'm determined. There are no Laylands in the records, but I tried the obvious spelling variant. And:

LEYLAND , Percy

Age: 13
Sex: M
Year of arrival: 1913
Microfilm reel: T-4749
Ship: Mongolian
Port of departure: Liverpool
Departure Date: 27 May 1913
Port of arrival: Halifax
Arrival Date: 9 Jun 1913
Party: Middlemore
Destination: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Reference: RG76 C 1 b


Howzat??

Now, I don't know how interested you are in Percy, but if you are, there he is!

If he has descendants in Canada, they might know something of family history.


Dang you Britishers ... you'll be asleep now ...

On the Canadian Layland angle: if you go to

http://www.canada411.com

and search for person, surname:Layland, there are 25 telephone listings in Canada. Not very many, in a population of 32 million.

There are a couple in the Northwest Territories (NT)! and several in British Columbia (BC), Alberta (AB) and Ontario (ON), and Nova Scotia (NS), but I don't see any in New Brunswick (NB). Migration westward from the Atlantic provinces is a constant phenomenon.

This is assuming that Percy returned to Canada after the war. He could have gone back to England.


Access to Cdn BMDs is uneven. They are registered provincially, and only a couple have been made searchable on line. I checked Ontario and BC for marriages, up to 1922-24, but none. Births (i.e. if he had children) aren't searchable at all, as we have a 100-year privacy rule.

No trace of Livinia in the Home Children records, btw.

Livinia was actually Lavinia and she stayed in Warwickshire.

Births Jun 1897
Layland Lavinia Clara A King's N. 6c 383


Marriages Jun 1918
Layland Lavinia A C to Walter Sheward Kings N. 6d 240

Rose

Alrighty now. Back to Clara and David.

Or not. But Lavinia:


Name: Lavinia A C Layland
Year of Registration: 1918
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Sheward
District: Kings Norton (1913-1924)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 240


as you undoubtedly know. ;)

Do you have the certificate? Just in case Clara happens to be a witness or something. It sounds like Lavinia may be your ancestor, but I'm not clear on this.


Back to Clara and David ...

The GRO index has these births where the father was Cameron and the mother was Roberts (no Laylands):

Frederick C Cameron
1917 Apr-May-Jun
Roberts
Sunderland Durham, Tyne and Wear

Norah L Cameron
1914 Jul-Aug-Sep
Roberts
Sunderland Durham, Tyne and Wear

Rudolph A W Cameron
1913 Jul-Aug-Sep
Roberts
Sunderland Durham, Tyne and Wear

Wylfa M Cameron
1914 Jan-Feb-Mar
Roberts
Chorlton Lancashire


Oh crap:

Name: Rudolph A Cameron
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: >>>Roberts<<<
District: Sunderland
County: Durham, Tyne and Wear
Volume: 10a
Page: 1046

(Robertina Roberts, if you can believe it. I'll bet her dad was Bob Roberts.)

They'll certainly account for at least the Rudolph in the list. But hey, maybe David was really called Rudolph and just couldn't stand the name. ... Nah, Rudolph, born 1890, is in the 1901. Well, how 'bout that Wylfa??

No marriage for David Cameron and Clara Roberts/Layland found at

http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/search/marriage/index.aspx

If you're really lucky, Clara and David will have had children after 1911, when the mother's surname started being added to the record -- but you'll just have to wait until FreeBMD catches up! ... or the 1911 censuses become available.

I see there are three people here at GR who don't seem to be you, who have Livinia in their trees. At least one of them also has a David Cameron. I assume they haven't been any help!

Kinda like moi. ;)

Wow Many thanks to Kathryn for her hard work. It makes interesting reading!

Certainly am interested in Percy as no one knows what happened to him as he was left on a railway line saying bye to his mom meaning Clara but Clara still had Lavinia Layland with her and left Percy. I dont know the full story about that.

Lavinia is my stepmom's mom's mom.

Many thanks for looking into this for me.

Clare

By the way theres one person on this site showing a match for Percy and Arthur but have tried for 18 months seems like their tree is on the site but they havent looked into it for a while. Just wondering maybe that person know all about Percy.

Well there ya go, now you know what happened to Percy!

He came to Canada as a Home Child in 1913, and he was in the Canadian military in WWI.

Not all Home Children were orphans. In his case, Clara may simply have been unable to keep him after Arthur split. If you google

"home children" canada

you can learn all about it. You can also go from the link to the search page I gave you to lots of info on the Canadian archives site about the child migration from the UK during the 18th and 19th centuries. If you do want to find Percy's descendants, there are organizations that help to put family members in contact, although I gather it is not an easy process due to privacy rules.

Ah, I see the indication "Middlemore" on Percy's arrival record. This is the best place to start:

http://www.bifhsgo.ca/home_children.htm

Aargh, their index

http://www.bifhsgo.ca/home_children_index.htm

only goes to 1910. But I get the feeling they would be very willing to help with inquiries.

If I think of any other way of tracking him in Canada, I'll let you know. There are Laylands who died in WWII, but since there were other Laylands in Canada before him they are more than likely not his sons.

If he returned to New Brunswick after the war, then unfortunately any records of his marriage / children aren't available on line. His name isn't in the Canadian Legion's "Last Post" list of deaths of members of the Canadian military:

http://www.legionmagazine.net/lastpost/browse.asp?alpha=L&offset=2400

Just searched trees here for Layland born in Canada, but none come up.

Good luck!

Ok

Many thanks i think im going to have some serious search tonight on ancestry and try to find out any more about him plus maybe other members have him in their tree on ancestry.

Many thanks for your help. I havent told my step mom yet but she will be gobsmacked for sure!

Thanks

Clare