Genealogy Chat

Has anyone got any pearls of wisdom as regards the Civil Reg BMD listings. My problem is that I’m after birth certificates for the children of one particular family born in the 1860s. I have census entries, marriage certificates and death certificates which all agree their birth years, yet I have scoured the Family Record Centre books and searched the currently available entries on Free BMD and cannot find any of them (varying years, spellings and places of birth). Is it possible that the parents did not register them? Was it compulsory to do so? Any advice would be good. Thanks a lot Jonathan

Hi, Free BMD is far from complete - you will probably find them on the full GRO index 1837online, which you have to pay for. Gwynne

As far as I'm aware it was compulsary to register a birth but I could be wrong. The problem with Freebmd is that it's not complete yet, there's still chunks of it missing so it's possible you've just been unfortunate with the time frame. Have you tried 1837online for the info? You have to pay to view the recs but if you haven't, I've still got spare credits left and will willingly take a peek for you if you can give me names, birth years, months if you know them etc

Hi Johnathan, it was not law until 1875 to register births as I have found out much to my dismay. But go for christening records if you can Margaret

Thanks everyone. Just to confirm I have checked the books in full at the Family Records Centre so I now they' re listed. Margaret's answer probably explains why I can't find them. This also could make life for another birth certificate I'm after - I have many possibles listed in the register and it now seems possible that none of them could be correct. That said, for £11.50 the GRO will search three full years of entries so long as you give them full details (or near full details) which could lessen the expense. Mind you, does take 3 weeks! One to bear in mind for those of you who have the same problem as me - searching for Jones's in Wales!

Jonathan - even though it was not compulsory until 1875 to register a birth, sometimes people still didn't if they couldn't afford it. Some births were registered, and some not, I have found! Hope you find them. Joy

I have had the same problem. I have been to look through the registers at the Family Record Centre but without success. Is it possible that the mother of the family had been married more than once and the children had been born with a different name then took the new husband's name when she remarried? Just a thought.

My great grandfather never had a birth certificate and he was born in 1887 . Only 2 of 10 children appear to have been registered . It made life difficult when he had to prove how old he was. Kim

Jonathan Have you tried the Nonconformist records which are listed separately at the FRC? Worth going though these to elimininate first before looking elsewhere. Janet

Janet Thanks for this. Are they indexed? Do you know where they are in the building? Cheers Jonathan

Jonathan They are listed separately but not sure whether they are in the same area as ordinary BMD. They are on microfilm. Try the website to see if you can find more about where exactly they are. I have not used them myself but I know people who have used them. If you can get hold of Practical Family History June and July 2004 there is a 2 part series on Finding non conformist Ancestors. It does say that early records up to 1837 of various nonconformist denominations are available on microfilm at the FRC. This is earlier than your interest. For methodists it does also say that since 1837 these registers are held mainly in County Record Offices. It aklso says that one of the largest collections of methodist records is to be found at the John Rylands University Library ManchesterThe articles I have are too detailed to copy here but try the FRC website first to see what years they have. You can google search Family Record Centre. Many of these records are also lodged with the Latter day Saints(IGI) so that may be worth trying your local LDS church. Presbyterian church of England was formed in 1876 and some of these are at the National Archives so you could try their website as well www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and search their catalogue. Baptists are usually christened in their teens and there is a Baptist Union of Great Britain but each local baptist church is a separate body and self governed by the church meeting. They keep records of events in their minute books Burials are also recorded in minute book. These records from 1837 may be found with the minister of the relevant church or in the relevant County Record Office. See how you get on with this info. I have more info but unsure how much will be relevant to you but if you think I can help further then fell free to come back to me. I do have both these articles. It is always worth perusing these registers if you are finding a number of your ancestors "missing" off the conventional 1837. Good luck Janet

Janet This is brilliant. Thanks alot. Jonathan

Lucky you! I have to contend with Jones's......in Wales!!! Arrrgghhh!

Jean You're not by chance researching Jones's around Denbigh/Henllan? A long shot but I live in hope of making a link with them one day! Jonathan

Joy, You hit the nail on the head, my Great Grandfather cannot be found on 1837?? well I reckon its because they did not register him as he was illegitimate!!! (surprise surprise) these things get covered up he is on the census as son in 1881 by 1891 he is grandson (which is more likely seen as his so called parents were heading for their 60th birthday) from then on any documents I have found he is grandson, on his marriage cert he names his grandfather (well in my opinion this is the person who brought him up so who else can he name?) talk about dont judge a book dig deeper and you'll probably find some secret why this person was not registered. Pat x

Jonathan Just one further point . I see you are into Wales and Jones then these are more than likely to be "Chapel" people so you might like to try looking into "Chapel" registers which will proably also come under nonconformist registers. I can't stop now to find out but try a google search on Chapel+Wales and see what comes up. Janet

Jonathan It has been compulsary to register BMD's since 1837 when it was first introduced although not everybody did. It wasn't until they made it a fineable offence in around 1875 that it gave poeple a bit more of an incentive to do so! lol Jeanette x

Following on from what has been said about nonconformist records at the FRC, these are on microfilm, class RG4, in cabinets behind the 1891 censuses. Indexes to what is held are in the small room along with many other extremely useful finding aids. BUT, they were deposited around 1837. A few came in late, so had later entries, but there is unlikely to be anything as late as the 1860s. Many of the entries have found their way onto the IGI on the LDS site, but it's worth looking at RG4 as some registers contain burials, and some give the names of mother's father AND mother! Brenda