Genealogy Chat

I found an entry for a marriage on Lancashire BMD. I went onto 1837 and found the GRO reference (the same for bride and groom) and sent for the certificate. The GRO e-mailed me saying that the two people in question didn't marry each other. I 'phoned them up and asked them to re-check which they did. They assured me that the marriage was not between the two people I'd given them. I sent off to Burnley Register office for the same marriage and have received the certificate! Question: Why do the GRO insist that these 2 folk did not get married when the local office is able to supply me with a certificate for it? Any suggestions would be gratefully received! Jill

Dont know the answer to that one but I would certainly contact the GRO to report this.

Hi Heather, I've just e-mailed them. I've offered to forward a scan of the certificate I have. The annoying thing is that it's cost me £10 up to now and it looks as though it's the wrong chap anyway! Serves me right for researching the name SMITH! Never mind. Happy New Year. Jill

I have never heard of this before, Is this a mistake from the Local Office to General Register Office? Oh dear Jill after all your hard work, that is really very unfair its the wrong person. Pat x

I don't know Pat. I can only assume that the Registrar had had a few and copied the wrong spouses onto the certificates. I shall be interested to see what the GRO have to say - does this mean that there is now a big question mark over the marriage certs supplied by the GRO?!! The local offices are supposed to have the originals.

Jill exactly what I was thinking it could very well mean the GRO certs are less trustworthy? Would love to know if many others have found what you have. Pat x

All registrations were made by the local registrar or vicar for church weddings. Every three months they would send "certified" transcriptions to the the District Superintendent. These were then sent to GRO. When the original register books became full they were sent to the District Superintendent for safe keeping. In theory the District Superintendent was also supposed to verify these copies but most often would not have the originals (still held by local registrars and vicars!) so it is difficult to see how he could do this.(The churches had two originals one of which they held or passed to local records office after 100 years). It is from these transcriptions that the GRO created their indexes. Errors were made again. The local BMD sites are using the original local indexes which are nothing to do with the GRO ones. Thus these indexes will not contain the GRO errors although they may contain their own! The introduction of photo copying should have reduced the errors. If you get a photocopy from a local office (and not a modern transcription) this is will be from the original register and is as accurate as you can get. Bob

Hi Bob, Thanks for that. Unfortunately, the certificate I have been sent is a transcription. I asked Burnley Register Office whether I could have a photocopy of the original record but they say that they don't have the facility to do that. All the certs I get from Harrogate are copies of the originals which are a lot better. I can understand errors creeping into the process - I just can't understand how they can get the spouses mixed up! Jill

Jill Just been reading your thread with interest. If you have got a copy of the certificate or know if they were married in a church, see if you can get someone to check the church records at the Family records centre, you will need to give the parish & date. I have a similiar thing but I only asked for the wife's name not knowing who she married. I had this certiicate for 2.5 years before I realised that there may have been a mistake as everything fitted for g grandfather including fathers details, it was only the surname that was wrong. I have now decided that either he changed his name for a few years or it got mixed up with a Mr West. Irene

Hi Irene, The certificate says that they were married in Burnley Register Office in 1874. The chap's name was Henry SMITH (groan). I'm fairly sure that I've got the wrong marriage 'cos there is no father mentioned and I know his father was David. There again, I know he married an Ann who had a surname that sounded like Dewhirst (family word of mouth!). I found this marriage at about the right time with an Ann DUERDEN. Thought to myself that there was a fair chance it was right. Now I've found this discrepancy with the GRO I wonder whether anything else might be wrong - like the father's name having been missed off in error! What a merry dance our ancestors lead us. I think I shall have to do a bit of lateral thinking! Jill

Could this be due to the fact that the GRO and Lancs BMD use a different reference number system so the two don't tally? Margaret

Sometimes the father's name was not recorded if he was dead.

Jill I havent had this happen, but I have had TWO certificates which could not be found by the GRO. Both came from the local Reg Office (Lancs, hmm, have we stumbled on something here?) Even armed with the certificates, these two events do not appear in the GRO registers. When I queried this with them, I got a very snotty letter saying that it was EXTREMELY unlikely that they had not been transcribed from the Local Registers. Okay, so why don't the GRO have them, but me and the Local Reg Office do?

Margaret, Yes, there are different references. Lancs have their own which is the one I used to order the cert from Burnley. The GRO ref is different and I used that to order the one from them - and they said that the two folk didn't marry each other. In other words, there was another marriage on that page of the register and the spouses were reversed! Twinkle: I've taken it that the groom was illegitimate. Marjorie: Interesting..........!!!! Thank you all for your input. I shall let you know what the GRO say when they respond to my e-mail. Isn't it fun?!

Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my post. Apart from the errors on GRO there are many ommisions. In fact it is estimated that that between 1837 and 1900, 50,000 marriages are missing from the GRO indexes!!! If GRO don't admit this they are talking bull. One of the most common questions of UKBMD is " I have found a record on your site that is not on GRO " Bob

Just read this thread with interest especially Robert's comments at the end. I sent off to the GRO for what I thought was my ggrandfather's birth certificate, I'd calculated he was born the 1st qtr of 1863 going off his marriage cert and the census records. When the certificate arrived, it was for someone with the same name but the parents were totally different. I queried it with the GRO and they insisted it was the correct cert. I went back to 1837 and checked TWO YEARS either side and was still only coming up with the one entry for the correct name. I eventually contacted the local register office who told me they have THREE entries for the same name same quarter same district and asked me to write in with the parents names and they'd send me the correct cert. The GRO are still insisting that I'm the one who made the mistake and that their indexes are complete. I've stopped using the GRO now unless its a London cert that I can't get direct from a local office Lou

The GRO have asked me for a scan of the certificate supplied by Burnley Register Office - they don't have a SMITH/DUERDEN marriage. They are showing an interest which can only be good.

Jill That's progress...at least they're admitting there may be an error in their system. Keep us posted! Lou

All sorted. I'm eating a fair dose of humble pie. The Lancashire BMD site only quoted a year - not a quarter. I found a SMITH/DUERDEN marriage on the GRO indexes in Dec quarter 1874. In fact there was another SMITH/DUERDEN marriage in March quarter of the same year in the same place.This relates to the certificate I've got. How unlikely is that and how b..... stupid can I get. I realised what had happened after I'd scanned the certificate and noticed the date. I then had another look through the indexes for that year. Sorry for bothering you all unecessarily. I do appreciate your input and it's taught me a lesson. Back to the drawing board....! Happy New year everyone. Jill

Jill That is spooky though innit??? Well I don't see you bothered anyone as your coincidence led to a good discussion on GRO versus local registers, and there is a load of useful information on the threads. Good Luck with the rest of the searches, and thanks for letting people know the outcome. Happy New Year to you too. Pat x