Genealogy Chat

Cheers Ann, Thanks for your opinion. I think it's pretty certain, but it's nice to have someone else's thoughts! Another brickwall BASHED!!!!!!!!! Paula x

I think you've got it Paula! Given the unusual surname I'd lay bets on your theory being correct. Well done! Anne

HI everyone, I've just got the cert for "female Paginton" AND just as we all thought, the mother is listed as ELIZABETH!! The date of birth on the cert is 21/6/1839, so ties in with a baptism on 7/7/1839. No fathers name given. So, is this all coincidence, or shall I take it that my Ann's mother was Elizabeth, and not Mary. Mary should be Ann's gran. Paula x

I didnt realise she had her sister's married name, I assumed it was a jumbled mess like most of the 1851 census reports! In that case, back to the Mother theory then!

Cheers for that Christine, I've sent for that cert as well, just to confirm who Elizabeths father was. Fingers crossed, hope it's Thomas.

Did you find the Wiltshire BMD site? http://www.wiltshirebmd.org.uk It only has marriages so far. Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference Wiltshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1849 PAGINTON Elizabeth MATTHEWS Frederick Brinkwortth Chippenham C7/1/108 Christine

Heather, I understand all of that, but why would be she be with her sister in the '51 census, and have her sister's married name?

Good luck.. If you can get it from the records office rather than GRO, mine come within a few days if I order from the local office rather than the website. You may find, as I said, that it is the brother's child if he married a Mary. The other village may have been the wife's home parish and they usually returned to mum for the first birth.

That's it!! I'm sending for the cert!!

Perhaps thats a clue then, they went to another village - and three miles would have been a reasonable distance then - to get it sorted out quietly. I know my GGFx3 and his "almost about to drop" bride married in neither of their home parishes but in the town 3 miles away. Perhaps that was well enough to do things secretly in those days. . It will be spine tingling waiting for the cert - but will it just have lies on it?

Heather, The church thing is quite interesting as the oldest 3 children were all born in Purton, Wilts, BUT Ann was baptised in Brinkworth, Wilts (only a few miles from each other) The entry on the parish records says Ann, daughter of Thomas & Mary, lab of Purton!!

Well, possible I suppose. Remember baptism dates arent the same as birth dates. He could easily have been 17.

Heather, Would Thomas, born 1823, be a bit too young to have married and have a daughter in 1839? Suppose he could have at 16, but how likely is it??

I can see a granny registering a birth or just saying to people that the 11 year old was hers but in those days it was probably a church do and I would have thought the local vicar would be well aware of whose kid it was and would have refused to fabricate at a religious ceremony?

HI Anne, I think it's a strong possibility that Ann is Elizabeths daughter, and not her sister. My Ann had been my brick wall for quite a while, but since I found her, its not getting any easier!! LOL

So, there is a brother called Thomas then. Can you find his marriage - it may be to a Mary, mightnt it?

I wouldnt like to hazard a guess really but at 30 she could be the mum couldnt she, but what about the other two kids - who was the father of those??? I should keep nudging this one up so that the night shift can think about it!

Hi Heather, Thanks for your thoughts on that. I hadn't thought about Mary's age. From what I've found so far, Thomas and Mary had 4 children Elizabeth, 1821 Thomas, 1823 Sarah, 1833 and my Ann 1839 From the census, they were the only family that fitted the bill, and Elizabeth was definitely a Paginton before she married. I also found the death of Abraham thomas matthews Paginton, in 1861, aged 14, so that fitted in with the 4 year old in 1851. Blow it I'll send for the birth cert!!

Do you think that Ann was really Elizabeth's daughter, passed off as her sister? the certificate will help, with a bit of luck. Anne

I think the cert sounds a good bet for Ann. But at 59 Mary would be pushing it a bit, though not impossible to be mother to an 11 year old, wouldnt she. Have you found a death for Thomas? Is Fred Matthews the second husband? Is this his correct age if so he would be too young to be dad of any of the kids except perhaps the youngest. Perhaps there is a brother somewhere called Thomas Paginton and Ann was visiting her auntie with her nan? I think you have to chance the £7.