Genealogy Chat

I have purchased a fabulous book FULL of information called how to trace your family tree..bargain£5! The following info is given so we can understand how relatives were afflicted. Apparently from 1851-1871 census returns had a column to denote whether a person was deaf/blind/lunatic. After 1871 there was a separate record of lunatic/imbecile or idiot. It says its worth checking the parishworkhouse,prisons,hospitals+asylums in the area . Distinctions were made between types of mental state:. A lunatic = had periods of sanity. an imbecile = some-one who had later in life become demented. an idiot = was mentally handicaped by birth. a moron = had a mental age of 8-12. a cretin = had a mental retardation caused by thyroid deficiency. I hope I haven't offended anyone but I just thought it was interesting. I am so glad we are more enlightend these days. If any-one is offended , please tell me + I shall delete it.

I'm not offended Ann, that's just the way it was back then. Can't change what's gone huh. Jan

I the Victorians were equally upset by the categories. You find very, very few people described as imbeciles, lunatics etc on the censuses.

I've seen quite a few "imbeciles" on census records. I wondered how the enumerator knew that. Can only be that someone from the family described them that way. We never hear such expressions these days do we. I've not seen anyone categorised "prostitute" on census records yet I have to say. Jan

Jan, I wonder if they had to be accessed by a doctor? makes you think doesn't it.............

These were not insulting words at the time. They actually gave a serious attempt at describing a mental condition (as shown above). Only by the MISUSE of the words have the terms become in any way insulting. Equally, the word "spastic" was deemed an adequate description of a condition 50 years ago (we all know what it meant), only the misuse of the word in the 1960s/70s led to its reassessment as "cerebral palsy suffererer(?)".

It's odd Ann, perhaps you're right, maybe they had been assessed by some doctor or other but I can't imagine there were really that many imbeciles and lunatics about. Now that medicine has moved on so far, the diagnosis would probably be very different today. Jan

I was horrified to find that my 3 x Gt Grandparents had another child, Jane, whom no one knew existed. She appeared on the Census in the local Workhouse aged 5, labelled "imbecile". I checked that it really was her and managed to find a small amount of info, her parents had paid for her keep in the Workhouse from about 18 months old. I followed her through all the census returns till 1891, when to my absolute heartbreak, she is reclassified as "Deaf and Dumb" Her parents died in 1898 and the following year (I suppose the money stopped coming!) I found that Jane was being "let out" of the Workhouse into the care of a Reverend and his family, as a maid. I have a copy of the reference, which says "Jane is clean of habit and easily takes instruction. She is skilled in Laundry Work, fine mending and is a competent child nurse" Believe me, I have wept buckets over this poor woman. I cannot trace her after this, I hope the Rev and his family were kind to her. Marjorie

Yes Im sure they would be suffering from Dementia or Alzheimers today.

Isn't it a shame that there were no proper facilities in those days. Probably today the little girl would have learned signed language and stayed at home where she belonged. One of my ancestors was blind from about 5 years old, although she was at home with her parents, as was my Mum's brother, he had a childhood accident which left him "invalid" it was described as - he died at 15. No doubt these days he would have survived into adulthood and led a useful life. Jan

I CAME ACROSS PAGES OF THESE INSTITUTION LISTS WHILE RESEARCHING.....THEY WERE CLASSED AS LUNITICS....PAUPERS ...PAUPER LUNATIC....I SUPPOSE THIS INDICATED WETHER OR NOT THEY WERE BEING PAID FOR AT THE INSTITUTION.....THERE WERE ALSO THE OTHER CATAGORIES YOU HAVE MENTIONED

Recently I read that the word "dressmaker " on a census form was sometimes used to describe prostitute... Doesn't mean that all dressmakers were prostitutes. Joyce

To Margorie..... that was such a sad story. How did you manage to get all the info about your ancestor? Was it passed down through the years? Aileenx

I've seen some very subjective remarks made by ennumerators on censuses. He has put things like 'supposed charwoman (prostitute)' in a whole household! I wonder where the truth lay? As I have said before I AM a dressmker!!!!!!!!! Anne

Hi Ann, Thank you for the info concerning lunatics etc it is very inlightening as to what the words referred to. But i have to say it looks like my gene pool has had it as recently i have found in different returns a idiot, a dwarf and a poor soul described as feeble minded.All of them from the same family but different branches. bye for now kaz

Aileen It was sheer luck! I had seen reference to a child, Jane, baptised between the births of two brothers and as she never appeared in the household I just assumed she had died. Idling about one day, I decided to "kill her off" but couldnt find a death and she wasnt mentioned on the family grave, either. I then found a Jane in the workhouse, right age, right area, still not too sure she's mine, but when I get to the Deaf and Dumb bit, I know she is, because several members of my family are profoundly deaf. I wrote to Lancs Records Office, not expecting much but they actually had her admission record (I think this might have been because she was put in privately, rather than as a Pauper). Her parents paid for her keep, it started at 10d (old money) a week, rising to nearly 10 shillings a week by 1880, however she is then reclassified as "able to work" and the fee drops to 5 shillings a week. I know that it was all done in ignorance, probably her family were advised to "put her away". Maddeningly, the records don't state if any family members went to visit her. I have nightmares over this poor woman! The same workhouse continued, until recently, to be a sort of dumping ground for "defectives" (their words, not mine) until the 1970s. I saw a TV programme about three women who were put in there in the 1920s, as "moral defectives" because they had had illegitimate babies. It was totally heart-breaking, these women had their lives stolen. Marjorie

I have a 'deaf/dumb/blind/lunatic' - not sure which one, although as they lady was healthy on earlier censuses and remained with her new husband, I assume she had an accident or illness which disabled her. I can't imagine having 8 children to take care of, in a three roomed house, and going blind/deaf with no chance of medical help or financial assistance.

I found the following entry yesterday, whilst using the "next Household" function on the 1881 census. Address is Dinsdale Retreat, Dinsdale, Co Durham. The occupation of the head of the household is "MD... Prop Licensed House for Insane", after a page of family, servants and "attendants" the inmates are given merely by initials. As if they did not warrent being given a name. Even though those whose occupations are shown are Solicitors, Surgeons, Clerk in Holy Orders - so obviously the "cream" of society. Who says we were better off in the olden days !! Cheryl

I recently found an entry for my husbands GT GT grandmother who is described as a Lodging houekeeper she had 6 male lodgers living there Her daughter is described as a dressmaker from what I've just read in the messages she could have been a prostitute. Which could explain why his grandmother was placed in an orphange when his Gt GT granmother died About young women being placed in the asylum for having a child out of wedlock In the 1970's in the mental illness unit I worked on there were 2 old ladies on the long stay wards who had been placed there for that reason and their babies had been put into a subnormality hospital as being defectives One of them always carried a baby doll around it was so sad they were so institutionalised that they couldn't be placed elswhere Bren

Such sad stories. I guess in those times when people were unable to understand what caused such conditions, they were completely unequipped to deal with them. Also they obviously would've had no financial assistance from the government in order to care for relatives with such problems. As for the whole dressmaker/prostitute subject, I had a skeleton fall right out of the cupboard on me. Searching for an ancestor on the 1881 census (my gx2 grandmother's sister), I found her in a rather unexpected place. She was 20 and not living with her family so I thought she'd have married, but found no marriage record either. Turns out she was an inmate in HMP the Dana, Shrewsbury. Occupation listed as prostitute. As of yet I have no idea what happened to her after 1881. I'd like to know what she was convicted for, whether prostitution or another crime, and how long she was in there, and of course I wonder how she got into that situation. I expect she must have had a falling out with her parents, and that was the best/only way she could make a living? If anyone can give me and information on the subject that'd be great.