Genealogy Chat

Many thanks to you all The information you have all given me is very interesting. I guess if William John Whiteside was the driver of the front pair of horses its not suprising that he died!! I think I will look for a nice picture to include in the tree I am doing and scan it in at least my kids will have an idea of what he would have looked like on his horse and gunn carriage. Reminds me of the Earls Court Royal Tournament. . . Do they still have that? I had a very nice reply from TNA with details of how I can get a search done. EXPENSIVE. . . but they do list some people who will undertake a search on my behalf at a less expensive cost. I might try asking if someone can check the muster rolls for me on the records board. re: Isabella, my feeling is that he might have come from up north but I need a clue and I think I am only going to find it from his service record. Veronica in Canada

Thank you Peter and Brenda........... some more looking up to do.......... .............. thanks for your help Peter......I have some respect for Army people.....may be because of my age and I was brought up with National Service................my father was in Burma with a Vickers Machine Gun......but he died a few days before the end of the war..........never saw the taking of Rangoon

Colin A Servant would of been the same as a Batman exsept a civilian, an Officer would of payed his wage. As to Samuel Jr. Have you tryed the Army musum research department, or the Impereal War Museum (IWM) might have some thing.

It was the title of one of the research guides on TNA'S website.

Thank you Brenda, British Army useful etc is this a book title or have I misunderstood ?

Hello Peter. thanks for the info....Samuel was born in 1836/7 which is three years after his father Samuel was discharged from the Army but on the 1841 census Samuel Snr age 45 still shows his occupation as Army and again in 1851.. but as it had been his life he maybe could have stayed on doing oyher kind of work. He says ' servant ' in the Army ... does this mean that after discharge a soldier could stay on... if so who paid him?......................................... Samuel Jnr was a Recruiting officer age 38 or so in 1875 and I have tried the recruitment office for help but they replied that they too were researching the Swansea recruitment information for the years 1875 to 1900 and they have the same difficulties as the rest of us..

Veronica One more thing on your Whitesides. Isabella is not a southern name. It is much more common in the North. While your man may have been born anywhere, it is likely that his roots are in the North.

AT THE TIME OF THE NAPOLIONIC WARS.It was not uncommon for a solider to take a wife with out a marrage. Wifes were seen as part of the regement to the point they were the cooks and nurses in time of battle. they would also follow up after a battle to plunder the dead. Soliders were not allways recruted in to there county regement. Staff Sargent was/is a rank. And Staff Sgt Pensions Would be a job and not any thing to do with his regament. Sounds like he was bourn in to the Army and died in it Veronica. Your relle was in the Royal Horse Artillery as they were the ones who had Drivers they werer the men on the lead pair of Horses. The Artilliry offten had there guns pulled by Oxen as well as Horses but these were lead more than ridden owing to the weight guns.

Brenda I have a newspaper article written when his daughter Isabella turned 100 (see lived to 102) and in it she says her father died in Dover she thought of injuries from the war, and that her mother remarried and they moved to Lincolnshire near horncastle to be near her mothers new husbands family. If only she had given her step fathers name (but then she wouldn't think of me doing research). FreeBMD and Ancestry have a death inDec 1858 for a William John whiteside, but it says the index was unreadable. . . darn it It could be him Veronica

Veronica Out of curiosity, how do you know your man died of injuries? If he did, then it may have been on active duty and that is why you cannot find him on the censuses. Have a look at this website: http://regiments.org There are links to the Royal Artillery on it. Some of the information is very brief, but the regiment appears to have been in the Crimea in the 1850s. Good luck Brenda

Colin and Brenda thanks for your replies. I think that my man was dead by the 1861 census, some kind person checked the 1851 and 1861 for Woolwich Aresenal and Woolwich Dockyard using the addresses I had from the birth and death certs and no one of that name or in the maiden name living their or anywhere close. Also Jan from Kent also used some 1837 credits to check for Whiteside name form me only 1 in London area and its the wrong first names. All others are from North of England. I can't even find a birth for the little chap that died in 1856. Margaret remarried after William John was killed and eventually went to live near Horncastle and I have daughter Isabella on 1871 as a servant and all her information forward to my husband. I need just 1 little clue on either Margaret Whiteside or William John to set me off in the right direction again. Ah, such is life. Veronica

Colin and Veronica have you both looked at the following research guide: British Army: Useful Sources for Tracing Soldiers Military Records Information 14 Amongst other things, it suggests ways to identify regiments from where they are stationed at particular dates. I think there ought to be records for Samuel Palmer the son, but too late to be in the online index. Veronica, it looks as if your problems are more complicated. Because your man died in service, there ought not to be discharge papers. I have very little experience of army records, but it sounds from the guides as if it is a question of finding references to him in lots of different records, rather than a single record specific to him.

Hello Veronica.............I have a reply from the TNA and they have the information but with so many records you have to find them yourself. This can be very difficult and as you can see I have been trying for ages and almost ready to give up until I recieved replies on this thread.................I have had a look on the TNA but couldn't see your man........... If he was in Woolwich in 1854 then maybe the next step would be checking the 1861 census to give you the family group and ages...... I can't find it again despite trying but when I was looking for Samuel Palmer an hour back I thought I saw something that said Royal Artillary records were held elsewhere.........but don't take that as fact without confirmation

Help!!! I also am looking for a military record and got myself thoroughly confused on TNA site. I am looking for a William John Whiteside, Gunner and driver in the Royal Artillery. he died of injuries. I have his daughters birth cert from 1854 registered at Woolwich Dockyard. Mother Margaret Hilson or Wilson. son of same name death cert in 1856 (thought this was him) also Woolwich Dockyard. Can't find marriage or anything else related to him. Any ideas? Do you think emailing the TNA would help me. Veronica in Canada

Hello again, I was able to find Samuel Palmer with the help given..... however for his son Samuel Palmer I can find nothing other than a reference to some land and the railway..in Illchester...............................Samuel Palmer born 1837 was in 1871 Staff Seargent Pensions in Swansea then in 1875 aRecruiting Sergeant in Swansea after which he had other employment and Army Pension until he died age 71 in 1908..............he is not shown on the 1861 census and his wife and child are with the in-laws........ in Martock.....I do not know where Samuel was........ is Staff Seargeant Pensions an indication to his Regiment ...............

Thanks Brenda , can't explain but was really excited wwhen I saw the information you had given...I had been on that site but not been able to use it. I do have his son to find but can not possibly ask without making an effort myself with the instructions provided Cheers everyone Colin

I am interested in your plight because I spent my childhood in Long Sutton and my sister lived in Martock for a decade. I am also ex military though a Royal Marine, not Army. I hope I am not covering the ground already covered by Brenda Hawkins but there is a site http://members.aol.com/BJCham2909/Regimental_Indexes.html that you might wish to investigate. I am unsure what information you are seeking but the Somerset archive office site is www.somerset.gov.uk/archives. The Somerset Light Infantry were 13th, not 1st of Foot. Tom Lang

Frances Go to the National Archives Website (Google National Archives for the precise address). Choose 'search our collections' and search the Catalogue. Enter the name you are interested in In the bottom box put WO WO97 is the category for discharge papers. These, I think I am correct in saying, are for men discharged with pensions, so don't include everybody and only go up to a certain date. Kew does hold later records, but those indexes are not on line. Happy hunting

Colin, you presumably have found this reference: WO 97/234/48 SAMUEL PALMER Born LONG SUTTON, Somerset Served in 1st Foot Regiment Discharged aged 39 1810-1835 These are his discharge papers. They are on microfilm at Kew. How much there is can vary: sometimes it's just a couple of sheets, sometimes much more. You need sight of these to tell you precise details. From there you can use other records: at Kew as well as elsewhere.

Thanks Peter I have four generations of the family in the Army.. but to keep it simple start with the earliest... Samuel Palmer inthe Army 1810 to at least 1851 he married a lady born in Portugal This is all I know of him , to research I need to know his Regiment...... he always lived in Martock Somerset.............not much hope is there ? Do you know of any publication that may help ? cheers Colin