Genealogy Chat

Just spotted an email addy at the back of the book - haven't looked yet but it seems to be mostly to do with contacting the author for Public Speaking Engagements! t(.)marriott_info(@)btinternet(.)(com) or his web page at www(.)trevormarriott(.)(co)(.)(uk) Hope that comes out! Marjorie

Hiyah, There is a copy of the book Marjorie is reading on ebay item no. 6957513740 £14.99 + £3.00 P&P. Germaine

Marjorie, don't know if your book mentions the philanthropic landlords of the time? If you couldn't afford the penny for the bed, for a ha'penny you could sleep draped over a rope which would be strungfrom one side of a room to the other. I wonder if this is the origin of the saying 'on the ropes' as opposed to the boxing conertation (oh no! a word I haven't the foggiest how to spell)

Sounds really interesting... Ho Hum... another 2 hours on here... but who's countimg!! lol Thanks Marjorie!! Love all that sort of thing... don't stop your little snippets will you? Anne :)))

marjorie, very interesting ! CHRISTOPHER; be careful how you bandy my name about ! maryclare holmes

Oh no, Nell... ..as I've bemoaned before, almost ALL of my branches seem to head back to Johns in the East End... Whitechapel, Shoreditch, Stepney, you name it! Now you've added another possibility (not that any of mine could have ever done such a thing). LOL! Thanks for the interesting thread, Majorie. I love this part of the 'treasure hunt' too - it brings the times to life. Sue (in NZ)

Marjorie I've just realised - Jack the Ripper was busy in 1888 wasn't he? So all we need to do is check on any Jack/Johns on the 1881 census, probably with East London connections, whose occupation is something like 'apprentice psychopath'. Obvious really. nell

Marjorie Well that certainly helps explain why our relatives change their names, ages and place of birth on every census, doesn't it! I think the most interesting thing about Jack the Ripper is that he committed all the murders (I know the common view is there were 5, but some people believe earlier murders were his work too) over a very short period of time. And then they stopped. Now serial killers go on killing until they are a) caught b) die c) are unable to get access to victims So what happened to this sailor chappie? nell

Christopher No, he demolishes all the 'famous' theories and goes for one of his own, which is that the Ripper was a Sailor. He tracked the Ships in Port at the time and by a process of elimination, involves the crews of two or three ships. Which gives a list of about thirty possible names. And thats as far as it goes. His theory is based on many witnesses saying they saw a man 'with a peaked cap, like a Sailor'. (Mind you, equally as many witnesses saw a man wearing a 'deerstalker') It really adds nothing new, except that this is the first time I have seen the witness statements in their entirety. It is quite shocking to my PC self, to hear 'the Jews' spoken of with such distaste and dislike, by witnesses and officials of the court alike. I am also interested in his theory that the victims had their organs stolen, not by the Ripper, but by the Attendant at the Mortuary, who was also an inmate of the Workhouse and who made a nice little earner by selling such items to the London Teaching Hospitals. Also sniggered at the Foreman of the Jury, who asked if the Police Surgeon had ordered a photo of the Victims eyes, lest the reflection of her murderer was imprinted there. (Popular theory at the time) Marjorie

4,000,001 surely with Chris on the trail ?

Hee hee! You should have left your cheeky postings on, I now look like an idiot talking to myself! The book is: Jack the Ripper: The 21st century Investigation, by Trevor Marriott (who was 'a top Murder Squad Detective' recently) ISBN 1 84454 103 7 Pub by John Blake. Its interesting as I said, mainly for its social observation - Marriott offers a new theory (which doesnt impress me very much) and demolishes the Patricia Cornwell book, which claimed to prove with DNA, that Walter Sickert was the Ripper. Marriott points out that the DNA (mitochondrial) found at the scene, supposedly matching that of Sickert, is in fact shared by 4 million other people. Marjorie PS - you might find some of your missing Whitechapel rellies in this book! LOL

Thank you for this thread. It's very interesting.

i thought that was great,marjorie! its so frustrating when you cant find someone, because they've been so vague about their birthplace, or keep changing their age or name. so easy to forget how different things were back then.

Marjorie I'd like to know the name of the book too - I'm fascinated by that sort of thing especially as i have links to that part of London Zoe

This is why I love this hobby. Not the BMDs but the scandal and daily living facts. Thanks Marjorie, what's the book? Abigail

Marjorie What's the book you are reading? Sounds like one I'd like to get my paws on Lou

Marjorie I've deleted my original message and I apologise - I've had it done to me before - once there were about 7 messages before mine popped up!. Anyway - do not stop giving us these snippets of info - they are all of interest and help us understand our ancestors and why their names, birthplaces and ages are incorrect on the census. So a big thank you from me! Debby

Marjorie Who USED to be able to type at 75 wpm. so there! Honestly, I try to educate you lot, don't know why I bother really. Marjorie

Reading a fascinating, factual book about Jack the Ripper. What is truly fascinating is that the statements of witnesses, called by the Coroner's Court, are given in full. And I was struck by the amount of social history these statements gave: My name is George Bloggs, I am about 28 or 29 years of age....I was born in Fareham or Portsmouth. Coroner: Don't you know? Witness: No, Sir, I am a foundling. Another Witness: My name is Mary Emma or Jane Smith. Coroner: Which is it? Witness: I don't know Sir, they call me both names. Witness: I lived with the deceased as man and wife for five years ....I believe she had four or five children, I do not know how many. Her husband is still alive and sends her ten shillings a week. Witness: I went for a fourpenny bed (at a common lodging-house) but they had all gone, the keeper offered me a 11/2d bed which I paid for, but I left it after about a half hour as I did not care for my bed-fellow. It goes on at great length like this, with witnesses who do not know their own age and who seem to have several different names. The Coroner made a great rambling speech at the end of one of the trials, condemning the Government of the day for allowing 'Extremely Poor' people to live in 'Our modern society' in such squalid and awful circumstances, so that women of mature years were forced to earn a living by street-walking. He cited 17 people living in one house (six families) which had been built a century earlier, to house ONE Silkweaver and his business.In Whitechapel there were almost 2000 'common lodging houses' which let beds by the night. I was also surprised to read that there was a Free Hospital in London in those days - for some reason I had thought that medical care was only available to those with money. It makes interesting reading but also explains to me that many people did not know their own age, where they were born - and they changed their names to suit a given situation! Marjorie

See below in a min Marjorie