Genealogy Chat

I have been trying to find any details of my great grandmother for many years without success. Can anyone who is familiar with English records give me with some advice. Her name is Eliza Isaac and according to the 1891 and 1901 Scottish census she was born in England c 1860. (The first trace I have of her is on her eldest daughter’s birth certificate in 1882 in Scotland) According to both her marriage and death certificates her parents were Frederick James Isaac (marine store keeper) and Mary Ann Isaac (maiden name Walters). Her mother was deceased at the time of Eliza’s marriage to my great grandfather John Buchanan in 1888 (John and Eliza had two daughters in Scotland before they were married). I’ve have tried on Ancestry but as I don’t know where in England she was born I’m not having much luck. Can anyone help please.

Do you think Eliza was the only one of her family to move to Scotland? ie would her parents have continued to live and die in England (and probably married in Eng too)? Sarah

Yes I think she was the only one to come as I can find no trace of her parents in Scotland. My mother and various other relatives remember her quite well but they really don't know very much about her. The only real clue that I have is that she visited Bath in the early 1900s. I have a postcard which she sent to my grandmother. Some years ago I asked GRO to search for her birth certificate but they were unable to find anything. I have my great grandfather in all the Scottish census from 1861 - 1901 excluding 1881 so I don't know if they met somewhere in England. Margaret

No luck so far! Still looking......have you looked for John Buchanan on the Eng/Wales 1881 census? Sarah

Hi Margaret Do you have her parents marriage Marriages Mar 1857 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cray Hen[r_]y Bath 5c 1107 Harford Mary Bath 5c 1107 > Isaac Frederick Bath 5c 1107 > Walters Mary Ann Bath 5c 1107 Ann

You would need to see the original, but this is a possibility if the father remarried and the daughter was known by her second christian name: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Frederick G. ISAACS Head M Male 47 Bristol, Gloucester, England Hatter Ellen ISAACS Wife M Female 45 Frome, Somerset, England Charlotte E. ISAACS Daur U Female 20 Bath, Somerset, England Music Teacher George ISAACS Son U Male 19 Hatter Ellen L. ISAACS Daur U Female 17 Bath, Somerset, England Henry C. ISAACS Son Male 15 Bath, Somerset, England Cheese & Bacon Factor (Dlr) William H. ISAACS Son Male 13 Bath, Somerset, England Scholar Emily Kate ISAACS Daur Female 9 Bath, Somerset, England Scholar Charles E. ISAACS Son Male 8 Bath, Somerset, England Scholar Caroline A. ISAACS Daur Female 2 Bath, Somerset, England Francis M. YOUNG Visitor U Female 19 Cirencester Florence HYDE Serv U Female 15 Combe Down, Somerset, England General Serv ________________________________________ Source Information: Dwelling 33 Stall St Census Place Bath St James, Somerset, England Family History Library Film 1341586 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 2436 / 94 Page Number 27

I don't have Ancestry, but this looks like the family in 1861: >>Frederick Isaac abt 1832 location, Hampshire, England relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire Frederick Charles Isaac abt 1857 location, Hampshire, England relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire Henry Richard Isaac abt 1860 location relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire John Isaac abt 1783 location, Somerset, England relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire >>Mary Isaac abt 1831 location, Somerset, England relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire William John Isaac abt 1859 location, Hampshire, England relationship Bristol St Paul Gloucestershire (possibly Eliza was born say April 1861?)

I too wanted Brenda's family to be ''the ones'', but on the next census there is still no Eliza and Fredrick is still resolutely a Confectioner. The ''good'' bit is that Frederick in Brenda's result was a widower in 1891. Sarah

For the record, thois is the family in 1871: Albert E Isaac abt 1869 location relationship St George Gloucestershire Alfred S Isaac abt 1871 location relationship St George Gloucestershire Anna M Isaac abt 1863 location relationship St George Gloucestershire Emma J Isaac abt 1865 location relationship St George Gloucestershire >>Frederick Isaac abt 1833 location, Hampshire, England relationship St George Gloucestershire Frederick C Isaac abt 1857 location relationship St George Gloucestershire Harriet E Isaac abt 1867 location relationship St George Gloucestershire >>Mary Isaac abt 1830 location, Somerset, England relationship St George Gloucestershire William J Isaac abt 1859 location relationship St George Gloucestershire

Okay, any bets that this is the marriage of Frederick the confectioner and Mary Marriages Mar 1855 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CHAPPLE William Skinner Southampton 2c 52 Chapple William Henry Southampton 2c 52 >>EDWARDS Mary Southampton 2c 52 HARTFORD Delilah Elizabeth Southampton 2c 52 >>ISAAC Frederick Southampton 2c 52 KELWAY Peggy Bar_y Southampton 2c 52 (It doesn't help, but it should eliminate them)

If this is the right Frederick, is he married to Elizabeth, or a widower already? Elizabeth Isaac abt 1831 location, Somerset, England relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire >>Frederick James Isaac abt 1833 location, Somerset, England relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire James Frederick Isaac abt 1859 location relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire Louisa Lydia Isaac abt 1860 location relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire Martha Isaac abt 1843 location, Somerset, England relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire Matthew H Isaac abt 1831 location, Suffolk, England relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire Simon Isaac abt 1819 location relationship Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Gloucestershire

Oh bum, yes I'm sure that is the marriage. There was me thinking about Mary being from taunton and didn't notice the older children born in Hampshire! What else can we call a Marine Store Keeper?? Sarah

This seems to be the marriage of the FRederick James, who is still alive and still married to Elizabeth in 1901. Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1852 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Davis William Bath 5c 1124 Inker Eliza Bath 5c 1124 >>Isaac Frederick James Bath 5c 1124 >>VICKER Elizabeth Bath 5c 1124

Sorry to have taken so long to reply to everybody - was called away just after I posted the message and this is just me getting back. As you imagine this family is driving me mad. Ann - Thank you I didn't have that and it looks like it could be the right one. I'll order a copy of that certificate and see if it helps Sarah - I could only find one John Buchanan on the 1881 English census who was born in Scotland at the right time (1855) but he was married to someone else. However he does have a son called Duncan Wright Buchanan (my John's father's name). There is also a daughter called Lily. A Lily Buchanan of the right age born in England shows up a a visitor with John's sister in the Scottish census of 1901. I've put this down to coincidence as I can't make any definite connection. (Unless Eliza and John ran off together leaving the wife and children behind) Brenda - Thanks for all you hard work. Given the occupations I don't think these are the right people but where have they gone to. I hadn't actually thought that Frederick might have remarried after his wife's death though so this is something to go on. Thank you all so much for your help (English births deaths and marriages are all a bit of a mystery to me being used to looking up Scottish ones. Can any of you tell me how I would find Mary Ann's death if I don't know where and only know that she died sometime between 1860 and 1888. Margaret

Ann from Cheshire (4th reply from the top) has given you the ref for the marriage cert for Frederick Isaac and Mary Ann Walters. English certs don't have as much info as Scots ones, but it will give you their ages (hopefully), Frederick's occupation and their father's names and occupations. Also the witnesses to the marriage. I think you must get the cert as it is surely BOUND to help in your search to find the right family on the census with confidence!! (do you know how to get an english cert? Cost's £7 with the ref Ann gave you. Buy online with credit card from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificate/index.asp#0 and takes about five days or so.) Good Luck (Doh, just read your reply to Ann in the message above!! - You will be in a better position to look for Mary Ann Isaac's death cert once you have her age at marriage) Sarah

Thanks Sarah. I'm off to do that now. This is the first breakthrough I've had in trying to find this family in over 10 years. Is it unusual for there not to be a birth certificate for someone born c 1860. I was sure with the information I had (ie her parents) that it wouldn't have been a problem. Mind you I've learned since then not to take anything for granted. Margaret

Registering a birth wasn't compulsory until 1875. Plus, there ARE three or four registrations for an Eliza Isaac around the right time. If you add that she could have been reg as Elizabeth, then there are dozens! Or what about if the registrar thought it was ISAACS not Isaac?? You are so lucky to have both parents names. Us poor English researchers wouldn't have that info! Without the mother's maiden name you would probably have been stuck for ever lol Sarah

Thanks again - you have given me hope. Can I ask you (you must think I am really stupid) but where did you find the birth entries - I looked on ancestry and couldn't find anything that pointed me in the right direction. Have ordered the marriage certifcate and can't wait till it arrives. Margaret

There are two Eliza Isaac's that are really close to the right date: Name: ISAAC, Eliza Record Type: Births Quarter: September Year: 1861 District: Aberystwyth County: Cardiganshire Volume: 11b Page: 69 Name: ISAAC, Eliza Johnson Record Type: Births Quarter: December Year: 1860 District: Grantham (1837-1933) County: Leicestershire Lincolnshire Volume: 7a Page: 373 There are 26 Elizabeth Isaac's too. I don't know if the indexes are fully transcribed for the years in question as yet. There are usually graphs available to see on FreeBMD showing what is transcribed, but at the mo they are unavailable - the webpage says they will resume the service on the 15th July, which is a laugh as it's the 20th today! I can't wait for you to receive the marriage cert either! Sarah

I think my brick wall may be beginning to tumble!!!!!!!!!. To add to the two you have just found Ann has just e mailed to say there is one in Yeovil in 1857 which is the same registration district as the marriage. I really can't thank all of you enough. Will let you know what happens when the marriage certificate arrives. Margaret