Genealogy Chat

Hi, one of the stories my grandad used to tell me was that one of his ancestors did the first maps of India. They did it on foot with locals, and the only thing i remember was that his little dog got eaten by a snake! Now i dont think this was William Lambton as he was very famous and i think i would know if i was related to him, but is there anyone who could find a regiment or something that might list all the people involved? My grandads grandad changed his name after an 'incident' in the army, so i really dont know what im looking for. Also my grandad is now dead, so i cant ask someone who was told the story

Forgetting the mapping bit for a mo....... Do you mean you don't know your g-granddad's name before the ''incident''?? Have you tried to get his army record? I have one for someone who was in trouble with the army and assumed an alias afterwards. At Kew his record was indexed under both names.......but then the army were the ones who got him to change his name! Maybe it's the same chap!!??? lol Merry

You don't know the regiment concerned and you don't know the name of the relative - rather needle/haystack I think! But I imagine the first maps of India would have been done by the East India Trading company or other traders. You could try googling 'India maps' or somesuch. Possibly there's information at Kew (vast collection of maps) and the India Office collection in the British Library. nell

Hi Robyne Would this help - Royal Engineers 'The Ordnance Survey of Great Britain and Ireland was staffed by these men who also carried out the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India and set out the international boundary between Canada and the United States of America.' Taken from www(.)army(.)mod(.)uk/royalengineers/heritage/  I do hope you can find more. What an interesting ancestor to have! The first survey of India was an amazing achievement and shows how skilled those men were. Monica

Hi yep i dont know his name! he changed it to Walters in the early 1900's i believe before he joined the foreign legion. I have emailed the national archives to see if they have any info on deserters, but because i have no idea of regiment, name or age even i havent got a hope. The only thing that could narrow something like that down was that the story said his previous name was something like Balkitt. On my g grandads marriage cert he is down as James Walters, occupation gardner!! Just had a thought actually, hopefully he kept his age so when he died it would tell me roughly what year he was born and possibly his wife might be the informant? Looks like another trawl through death certs to see if i can find anything! I believe it was his dad that did the maps, so again it is just a needle in a haystack. The most interesting story of my family i have and i cant find anything out about it!!!

There is probably no connection whatsoever and I'm not very clear with the dates for your story, but there's this bloke who is bugging me on the 1901 census: James F Balkwill abt 1869 Scotland Head Derby Derbyshire Alice Balkwill abt 1869 Derbyshire, England Wife Derby Derbyshire James is an Ordinance Surveyor!! Surely too late in the day to be your rellie? Merry

Hi Merry although my great grandad isnt there (from his marriage and death cert he was born 1896), it doesnt mean thats not him! that is a very big coincidence, so will look into that thanks so much, it could be the missing link!!

Now I've found your thread again Robyne, you can probably forget half I said in the reply to your PM as I was getting the different generations mixed up..... So Herbert X was born about 1896 and it was his FATHER who had an altercation with the army and changed his surname. Presume this may have happened either before or after Herbert was born? When Herbert married he said his father was James and you think that should be James Balk**** (something like that). But the James I found (Ordinance Surveyor), didn't have any children on the 1901 census........ If I'm wrong again (lol) please put me right! Merry

Going back to the James Balkwill I found who was a surveyor and doesn't see m to have any children! He married Alice Mellor as follows Name: Balkwill, James Forbes Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1895 District: Derby County: Derbyshire Volume: 7b Page: 839 Maybe he is a red-herring as the only Herbert Balkwill who was born (and lived) was 1894 in Devon, whilst James and Alice seem to prefer Derbyshire! Merry

HEY!!! That James b 1869 in Scotland, does at least have a connection with Devon after all......... I'll put a tenner on that this is his father and family. Dad was born in Devon.... Alexandra Forliga Balkwill abt 1878 Scotland Son Derby Derbyshire Bertha Eden Balkwill abt 1862 Scotland Daughter Derby Derbyshire Christiana Balkwill abt 1845 Scotland Wife Derby James Balkwill abt 1845 Huish, Devon, England Head Derby Derbyshire From James junr's married details, posted earlier, we know James' middle name was Forbes. In the family above, Alexandra Forliga should read Alexander Forbes Balkwill. This older James is.......wait for it......another Civil Service Surveyor!!! (pity none of his children were born in India isn't it??!!) I am wondering if Herbert slots into this family in some other way? Rather than being the son of James Junr, is he the son of someone else we have not yet seen, but who is perhaps connected to James senior???? Am going to think on this for a few hours......... It's probably all a red-herring, but an interesting one! Merry

Hi Merry you are on exactly the same train of thought as me. There is a Victor living with the other James in Devon, and one of the witnesses at my g grandads wedding was Victor Walters!!! Im presuming this was his brother, im at work at the moment so cant double check that but it def started with V im sure of it!!!

Victor? Expect you were looking at this one? Elsie M Balkwill abt 1892 Bere Ferrers, Devon, England Daughter Bere Ferrers Devon George Elliott Balkwill abt 1857 Sheepwash, Devon, England Head Bere Ferrers Devon George Horne Balkwill abt 1898 Bere Ferrers, Devon, England Son Bere Ferrers Devon Lewis John Balkwill abt 1879 Sheepwash, Devon, England Nephew Bere Ferrers Devon Ruth Balkwill abt 1892 Bere Ferrers, Devon, England Daughter Bere Ferrers Devon >>>>Victor John Balkwill abt 1897 Bere Ferrers, Devon, England Son Bere Ferrers Devon Emily Hunkin abt 1878 Morchard Bishop, Devon, England Niece Bere Ferrers Devon I can't see a connection between the families at the mo..... I had hoped dad, George b 1857 at Sheepwash, might turn out to be the brother of the older surveyor chap. Went back to 1861 census and found George aged 4, but, though he did have a brother called James, he wasn't old enough to be James the older surveyor.... Shucks... Now, get on with your work lol Merry

That was prob the one! i dont have access to Ancestry at work so couldnt double check! I think the only way to sort this is to get Herberts Birth cert and see what info it has. Victor could have been born later than 1901, but i have no way of knowing. Herbert def didnt die before 1910, not that i could tell anyway!

Ggggrrrrr! James senr is a bit more descriptive about his job in 1891. On that census he says he is a ''Clerk to the Ordinance Survey'', which somehow doesn't have a mapping India ring to it!! Maybe he only ever got to write up information about the people mapping the highlands of Scotland!!?? In 1891 he had another son in the house.....John aged 17, but he is heading for rather more circumspect employment, being a grocers apprentice! Can't trace a marriage for John or anything else for that matter......no middle name??? He's not on the 1901 census as far as I can see. Merry

ooh i think this family is going to annoy me soon!! im so keen to see what happened. I think that if we know his name, I can look in the army records and hopefully something will have been recorded on the fight. presumably a disiplinary hearing would have been set up, even if he hadnt turned up? Another reason why Devon sounds good is because my g grandad married in Hull, so they would have had to move from far away for people not to have recognised him. Something else that was said was that James joined the foreign legion with his new name, so if it happened before 1901 maybe that is why Herbert isnt showing? But then Im thinking that the story is alive because someone told it, and i dont think it would have been James or his wife so Herbert or his siblings would have been the ones to pass on the story to my grandad?

Just reread one of your threads again Merry and you are right about the dad. James's birth is on LDS and his Dad is james and Mum is Christian (Christina?), in Scotland. Perhaps on Dads trecks in the Ordinance Survery he visited Scotland, fell in love with Christian and they had James. Have you seen James medal record on National Archives? his name was Captain james Sutherland Forbes Balkwill!!! Wow how posh is that!! Also i dont actually know that it was his dad that did the mapping, could have been his grandad and Ordinance Survey was in the family? Ooh i wish i could nip home and look at the marriage cert. Im now convinced that herberts Occupation was something to do with the Ord servey, but im probably just imagining things now!!

Will await your return home then! Merry

Hi Merry just a confirmation! occupation of Herbert was surveyor!! witness was Vincent Walters. age on cert was 28

Erm...Age was 28 at what date??!! Surveyor!! Ooh that's good - keep it in the family??? Merry

it was 1924, perhaps that would have been a good idea to mention it!!! could mean absolutely nothing, could mean everything! i have no idea any more!!