Genealogy Chat

As we couldn`t find the certificate I found before, I have now obtained a copy of Mike`s adoption certificate from GRO It is an official GRO certificate stating that adoption hearing was held at Temple Cloud Juvenile Court in January 1947 (Temple Cloud is a neighbouring village to Clutton) All the names are correct and his date of birth is stated as the date he knows to be his birthday. I also have a birth certificate showing the same date of birth, registered on the day after his birthdate giving birthplace as Clutton, mother Hilda Cook and informant Samuel Cook grandfather. As I mentioned before, Mike was told that he was abducted by a person called Cook and found 2 weeks later at Clutton. If this was just a story to hide the fact he was adopted, how would his parents have known the name of the birth mother. I always thought that this was kept confidential. Were things done differently back then? Temple Cloud Court is no longer there, where would I look for possible court records? Possibly Somerset or Bristol records office? Mike is OK with my digging on this, and he is prepared for the fact that he was actually adopted.

Hi Carol, Just wanted to wish you and Mike all the Best with your continued search. As you have said this is something Mike has to untimatley do for himself, and when he feels ready to deal with whatever answers he may find, however, I am sure that you will be there to support him through the long wait for his records, through his counselling sessions, and maybe if he was adopted, help him decide if he wants to take this matter any further. I hope he find all that he is looking for and if I can offer any help or advise in the comming weeks, feel free to e-mail me. Best Wishes Sheila

Mike is going to try and obtain his adoption records. It will mean going through the councelling formality, but will be worth it to find out what really happened. He knows that this is something he has to do himself and that I can`t do it for him, though it is me who is doing his family tree. I will get back and let you know when we find out anything. Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughts.

i know this is off but when i had 2 of my children in 1995 + 1996 there birth was registard and we got a short birth cert when my youngest son was born in 2000 and we registered his birth we got the full birth certs for all 3 and when i looked on ancestory the 2 eldest children are registared twice

I'm eagerly following the outcome of this thread too! I have to say (although maybe wrong) I have a gut instinct that your partner wasn't abducted. I believe this story was made up to try and protect him somehow. By saying he was adopted but really they were his birth parents, just sounds a bit 'iffy' to me. I believe that Cook was his biological mother - he was sadly illigetimate and then his parents went on to adopt him. Just my thoughts, sorry if I've offended, I don't intend to. Best Regards Helen x

Hi Carole Have you had any luck in your search yet?

Anne Can I be rude and ask when you worked in Bristol Maternity Hospital? Things changed mightily in the 1980s. My oldest daughter was born in London in 1968, in Barnet Hospital. Anyone could come and go freely - my husband used to come up the Fire escape to bring me Fish and Chips. Babies were not in bedside cots, but in a Nursery at the end of the corridor - next to the Fire Escape. The Nursery was open and freely accessible at all hours of day and night. There was usually a nurse or two in there - 50 or so babies - but not always. My two youngest were born in the 70s and early 80s, here in Cornwall. Again a very casual regime, although babies were on the Ward by this time - but you could ask for your baby to be taken to the Nursery at night if you werent breastfeeding. It was as a direct result of one or two abductions from Maternity Wings that the present care is taken, and it would be very difficult indeed to abduct a child from a hospital now. But I maintain that it would have been pretty easy in the 1940s. I do so want to know the outcome of this story!!! Olde Crone

I think when I was young adoption agencies tried to place babies with parents with the same colouring, eyes and hair as well as skin. When I worked in Bristol maternity hospital it would have been extremely difficult to abduct a baby. Babies were kept in a nursery or with the mother. A nurse always carried a baby out to the mother's car and gave it to the mother outside the hospital. I am sure an abduction would have made the local newspaper. Old Crone this is different from just taking a baby in a pram from outside a shop. We once found a baby abandoned in the hospital toilet but that is another story.

Just a thought that crossed my mind, which relates to my own experiences of being adopted: Maybe when his Mum told him,aged 9, that although he was adopted he was her real son, she was actually reassuring him that despite the fact that she did not give birth to him, the bond between them and the love she has for him is as strong as any between mother and son. Maybe he misunderstood her meaning. I refer to my adoptive parents as my real Mum and Dad. And people have commented in the past on my resemblance to my Dad which of course is purely coincidental. Liz x

I'm just adding to this so I can find the thread again. I'm hooked on this story and I hope you find the truth eventually Carol. Please keep us posted. Sue xx

Olde Crone - I think Carol already has the birth cert naming Miss Cook as the mother.......?? Otherwise she wouldn't know who had registered the birth, nor that the dob matches Mike's.... Apologies if that's not what you meant....... Merry

Before the National Health Act, women could pay a small sum to have their baby in a Hospital - it was something like 2 guineas per confinement. My own mother did this for my birth - and my mother was only 19 when she had me. I think my parents saw it as a sort of middle-class thing to do - my mother had no health problems. As I said before, this story has the ring of truth to me. Once a child has been registered, however wrongly, the Registrar CANNOT change that entry, other than by an amendment in the Corrections Book. That amendment will appear against the ORIGINAL entry as a reference number. It should also be shown on the ORIGINAL Birth Certificate. If you send for the Certificate you have found, for the Michael registered to Miss Cook, stating that it must have an amendment number on it, and they don't send it to you, then you will at least know that Miss Cook and her son Michael are innocent members of the Public, and nothing to do with your partner.(I hope that makes sense). Does no-one else remember the case 20 odd years ago, of the child who was taken from a Maternity Hospital and was missing for five or six months? When the child was eventually found, the real parents had to go through the formality of adopting her in their own name. It was merely a formality and was rushed through the Courts. It is of course illegal to falsify information to a Registrar - but that pales into insignificance against the crime of abducting a baby, and does not make the original, wrong, registration disappear. And I still think Grandad Cook was innocent - why on earth would he want a stolen child, to replace an already illegitimate child? Olde Crone

I was born at Bristol Maternity Hospital in 1943 and my brother in 1944 as far as I know my mother had no medical problems. The address on my birth cert is 50 Southwell Street though in the 1950's it had moved near to the Downs in Bristol.

Hi Collette, Its possible to oder your original birth cert, before your adoption papers come through if you know your birth name, you can order direct from GRO Southport or as in my case from the local registry office though a lot insist you oder from Southport. E.mail me direct if you need a h and tracing his birth family, Good Luck. What Anne says is correct although you may need to check out the address as even hospitals are not always down as hospitals quite often the appear under the street and number only. The woman who reigstered him did she have an unusual first name or middle intial he could try finding a marriage for her after the birth. Sheila

Hi, Carol. If you have the birth cert - does it give the exact place of birth? I was born in '39 at home, as were my brother and all my younger cousins. Babies were delivered by midwives. Despite the fact that my mother had problems giving birth - a couple of still births that I know about - she still remained at home with her mother in attendance. My aunt must have been 40 or so when she had her last child in about 1950, and she had a home birth. I think that the NHS started in 1948. and even then most hospitals were 'cottage' type. with GPs in attendance. So. if Mike was born in a hospital, it must have been unusual. Either the mother was in her 40s, or if younger may have had some health problem. Just thought I'd mention this. Anne X

Hi everyone i am helping a guy at the moment Old Crone may recall he wasnt allowed to have his own birth cert untill he had his adoption papers. He now has them and he has been sent his birth cert, so i am wondering how Mike got his without Adoption papers. The guy i am helping now has his mums name an address were he was born and an address were his mother was living so he has some leads now. Colette

Here's another angle........ Could Miss Cook be a relation of the couple who brought Mike up? Maybe Miss Cook had her baby and the birth was registered by her father because she was not well enough to do it. Then because of post natal depression (or some other cause) she was put in an institution and couldn't look after her baby, which was then adopted by Mike's parents. If Miss Cook was a relation that would explain a likeness between Mike and his mother........ The abduction story might have been constructed to hide the fact that the biological mother had a mental health problem.... Hmmmm.......I haven't really even convinced myself......just another possiblility.... Good Luck - I really hope you are able to trace the adoption records and can get t the bottom of this mystery. I have searched The Times newspaper archive til I'm blue in the face, looking for any clues. But shortly after the war, if there WAS a child abduction, I doubt it would be considered as newsworthy as it would do today.......... Best Wishes Merry

Hi Again Carol, Has Mike got a copy of his 'adoption cert', not his new one the one that his mother would have had? The cert, that you have sent of for is his 'orignal cert', and the one in the name he has now is his 'adoption'cert. If he was adopted then the original adoption cert, his mother would have had, would have had a date on approx 6 months after they took legal gaurdianship. Most people believe that they have been adopted a birth, but this is not the case, after you have been placed with the adoptive parents you have got to wait normally 6 months for the courts to grant the adoption then a new cert will be issued in your new name. Playing devils avocate here, its possible that a woman named Cook had been through a traumatic time in the war, for whatever reason abducted Mike, and after he was found was commited to a mental asylum (however, you have searched newspapers for a 6 week span around this time and found nothing) I do not think the hospital could cover this up, if a police report had been filed. I am with Kay on this one and as I mentioned before, still feel that it is nore likely Mike, was born in Clutton to a Miss Cook (dont forget there were a lot of war time babies born then, and adopted 2 weeks later by his parents. They were certainly not too old to adopt then, in my family there are several adoptions where parents are in their 40's, you mention they had been married for 20 years before and Mike has no siblings it seems too much of a coincedence that after 20 years she gave birth to her son, had him abducted and they had to apply to adopt him (you would be amazed at the lengths adoptive parents would go to, to do what they see is protect their child from the truth). I hope my thoughts or opinions do not offend Mike but I can see this story from both sides of the fence. Unfortunatly you may have a problem getting access to adoption records as even mine from the 60's were hard to find and you looking at a time or turmoil just after the war. I hope you do find them and get some answers to your questions but don't pin all your hopes on these for all the information as most only hold very basic info, from this time not like ones that are done today. Is there no alive from the family who could be of any help to you both with this search? I wish you all the Best of Luck with this search. Sheila

Quite right Susan. This genealogy lark certainly generates a vivid imagination. We are going to try and get hold of his adoption records, that should put things into persepective.

Good gracious! Just my opinion of course...but I think imaginations are running riot here!!! I think OP should take a step back and consider the provable facts. If her OH was adopted, there should be documentation, which she should research before jumping to any other conclusions.