Genealogy Chat

I've a relative who was born in Wiltshire for first census and then same person says that he is born in Pontypridd Glamorgan for two next census.We have since found out he was detained at Wiltshire house of Correction on two occasions so may ahave been a bit dodgy and trying to disguise his identity from the authorities! Kim

Hello Peter, There's an idea! Just had a look and it says Liverpool with no country, so that gives me another possibility to check out. Merry, Thank you for that! I think I might even have some money left on there - just off to have a look :o) Helenxx

When his daughter was born, he didn't say he came from Liverpool, New South Wales, did he?? Peter

There are three Mary Hallows and two John Hallows on the 1851 census index for Liverpool (No Joseph though). There are on Family History Online and would cost 30p to view, but I only have 2p credit left.....!! The only problem (apart from the money) is that after getting the index info you would usually need to find someone with the Liverpool Census on disc so they can get the full details. Generall the index doesn't include ages. Obviously it may not be the right people either!! :o(( Merry

I lied about 1871 - mary Hallows only says Shropshire on that one!! Interesting she classes herself as a retired farmer..... I think you are right that the 1851 must surely be the way to go (come on Ancestry Ggggrrrrr!!) Merry

That's true Angela - they'll hear me whooping for joy in the next village!

Think of the sense of triumph when you have the right certificate in your hand!! Should make it all worthwhile.

Hello Merry, Knowing John he'd probably marry her off to someone else and halve her age! Thank you for thinking and please feel free to continue, any suggestion would be great. Helenxx

Pam, Let's hope ancestry get 1851 online soon and I might just be able to track him down at home with both his parents -that would be fanatastic. In the meantime I've just ordered the Liverpool certificate and I should have it in a week - can't wait! Helenxx

When he's under his mum's thumb he's always born in Shrewsbury!! And mum stuck with Shrewsbury all the time, I think?? Can't find her in 1861, but she says Shrewsbury in 1871, 1881 and 1891. I was going to suggest you got her death cert to confirm who she is the widow of, but at the death is probably going to have been registered by John he's going to say the same as beofre (widow of Joseph) or maybe we can't trust his info anyway!!! Still thinking - Merry

Helen, You never know you may be lucky. one,census enumerators can be very helpful, 1851 was the first one where people had to say where they were born. While my ancestor's mother was starting him off on his path of fibbing every ten years, his grandmother just down the road in the house where he actually was born, in a different census district, was carefully giving the enumerator chapter and verse and full adresses for her own birthplace and for the other people in her house. Best of luck, someone has written something helpful somewhere if only you can find it. Pam

Hi, Helen. I forgot to tell you that the one who was born in three different places may have been born under a different name as well. I think he is one of our family skeletons!! And the one that was born in the place that doesn't exist (I even asked the local FHS where it was!) shares the same mysterious birth place with his two brothers. There are quite a few people researching this side of the family and we have all come to the same full stop.

Ooh Angela, if I had him in front of me now, I'd cheerfully thwap him one! I'm not even sure he's worth finding if he did abandon his wife and one of his children like that. He changed his mind so often about where he was born, that probably, by 1901, he genuinely couldn't remember, but you would have thought that his mother could? Still, at least all these places do exist. I'm sorry about your imaginary one that must be very frustrating. Helenxx

Thank you Pam for reading all the way to the end! I think you're right, I need to order the Liverpool birth certificate to see if it's right. If it's wrong I need to try and find the parish registers for the various places he claims to have been born and eliminate them one by one. Thank you Pam things are a bit clearer now :o) Helenxx

I know how you feel. Quite a few of mine are beginning to annoy me too. I have one who was variously born in Walton Yorkshire, Bradford or Sherburn Yorkshire depending on how he was feeling at the time. I have another one who was born very helpfully just in Scotland, and doesn't appear to have any birth records or marriage records. Yet another one died but doesn't seem to have been buried. Annoying person number 4 was very specific about where he was born but unfortunately it doesn't exist!! Why couldn't people have been a bit more helpful with their ages and places of birth?

Helen, It all sounds fine and plausable, in all these sources of information he is the informant, and people did tell fibs about themselves. I have one ancestor whose place of birth is different from his birth certificate, when I eventually tracked it down, for every census in which he appears, including the one where he was one year old. The enumerator can only record what he is told and there's plenty of evidence that they were not always told the truth. I have another ancestor who emigrated to Australia, and then took 10 years of his age before marrying local girl (his UK wife was still living at the time). Keep trying for his birth cert, its rather expensive if you buy the wrong one, but you will get there in the end. (if you can get your hands on Parish record transcrips/fiche for the relevant areas that may help and cost less, but depends on where you are and if you can easily get to libraries CRCs or LDS family history centres. Pam

I'd like to know where he was born and he's not making my life easy! John Ingram Hallows is my 2xgrt grandfather. I first found him on the 1901 census living with his daughter and son-in-law. He is 62 and born in Seacoombe, Cheshire. His daughter Mary Frances is down as being born in Hawthorn, Australia c.1865. I looked on the Victoria BMD site and found her birth : Mary Frances Hallows born 1865 Hawthorn, Australia. Father: John Ingram Hallows born Liverpool. Age: 26. Mother: Margaret Bettel born Hendon, London. Age 22 On the same site I found John and Margarets' marriage entry 2 years earlier in 1863. John Ingram Hallows is now born in New Town, Montgomeryshire, Wales. He is 24 and Margaret is born in Mill Hill, London and is 21. John's parents are Mary(formerly Ingram) and Joseph Hallows. I think from the BMD index in Victoria that they had three children together, then John left Margaret and came back to England with the two eldest children, leaving Margaret behind with the youngest child. Margaret then went on to have 2 more children to an unknown father! Poor abandoned thing! I've found John Ingram living with his two children and his mother in Cronton, Lancashire in 1881. Deffinitely him as both children born in Hawthorn, Australia and Cronton is logical as this is where Mary Frances' future husband also lives. However, John Ingram's birthplace is now Shrewsbury, Shropshire as is his Mother's, Mary A. John is now 33. I think this must be a mistake because it's not consistent with all the other ages given. In 1891 he is still in Cronton with his mother both born Shrewsbury, Shropshire but John is now 50. From going through FreeBMD and 1837online I've ordered two certificates so far - both are wrong. The first for John Hallows born 1840 Hayfield and Glossop not the right area but the right age. The second for John Ingram born Newtown&C, Wales Sept 1838. I tried this one because I wondered if his parents weren't married and I know from his australian marriage entry that his mother's maiden name was Ingram. There's another one that I haven't ordered yet because it's outside the age range but not rediculously so. It's: John Hallows Liverpool Mar 1842 - should I order this? Can find no trace of a wedding for Joseph Hallows and Margaret Ingram but this could well have taken place before 1837. I've had no luck on the IGI either. Now that I've typed it all out - I've a funny feeling that I've answered my own question! Helenxx

My John Hallows that is, see below to see why in probably quite a long time because I'm a bit slow!