Genealogy Chat

hi ozi and sue, well thanks for your help there. ozi thats probably why i have them living in the same street but at different numbers on 2 different census..i was a bit confused because i thought they had moved just 2 doors down or something lol. and thank you sue for your geography knowledge its an area i really dont know well at all, so it would be great thanks if i could pick your brain from time to time! hope you both had a great new year!! alex :o)

Hi Alexandra, Whittington, Worcester, Pershore is my neck of the woods...so perhaps I could help? Whittington is a very small village just outside the City of Worcester boundry. Little Park St is within the city boundry, just off Wylds Lane...just looked it up on a Worcester street map. Swinesherd was/is an area between Whittington and Worcester city boundry. A by-pass road was biult in the 90's and named Swinesheard Way. Whittington now comes under the Wychaven Dist. council, which I believe the HQ is in Pershore, so that might explain a few things...if boundaries haven't changed. If I can help any more with the geography bit, just shout! Happy New Year to all, Sue

hi, right i have checked and rose isnt rosa...so that throws my theory right out the window lol. rosa is on the 1891 census and she is 13 and she is the daughter then as well. well i have found an entry for rose clutterbuck getting married in 1902 quart 2 in worcester to either a albert edward ludlow or a james thomas. i dont have a certificate for it i juts found that entry a little while ago and pretty sure it must be her due to the name and location dont you think? alex :o)

Dont forget - just because they were not there on Census night, doesnt mean they had left home for good. And just because they were next door on census night, doesnt necessarily mean they lived there permanently. When my Mum was little, she lived in a very poor area, in a one bedroomed house. The neighbour had thirteen children (!) and the four eldest boys slept in the unused 'parlour' of an elderly widow down the street. This will probably confuse census-hunters in 2021, but in reality it was just a practical solution to lack of space. Olde Crone

hi ozi, i did notice now you mention it that in 1891frederick and gearge were living with their sister mary jane who was then called mary jane allen and was married to james, and that they all lived next door to john, emma, rose, louisa and emily. that is the last i can find of rose and louisa though until rose gets married in 1902 and louisa gets married in 1912..although i think lizzie may be louisa. i just cant figure out where rose went she seems to have dissapeared till she gets married.. hi jess thats a good point i will look on the census and see if james had a daughter called rosa earlier..i didnt think of that lol. i have a feeling that ozi is right though and that they were just cousins, but im going to check now. thanks guys :o)

did uncle james have a rose/rosa or something similar in 1891? yes he did Clutterbuck, Ada abt 1886 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Daughter Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, Alice abt 1876 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Daughter Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, Harry abt 1883 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Son Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, James abt 1840 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Head Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, Jenny abt 1874 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Daughter Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, Lucy abt 1843 Kempsey, Worcestershire, England Wife Whittington Worcestershire Clutterbuck, Lucy abt 1881 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Daughter Whittington Worcestershire >>Clutterbuck, Rosa abt 1878 Whittington, Worcestershire, England Daughter Whittington Worcestershire

hi heather and olde crone thanks for your replies i have to say your right they seem to like changing their names willy nilly whenever they feel like it lol. i have a bit of a brick wall at the moment regarding the clutterbuck family. in my earlier post you see in the1881 census you have john, emma and their children mary jane, frederick, george and rose then the 1891 census has john, emma and there daughters rose, louisa and emily not mary jane, frederick or george. now when it comes to the 1901 census i think john and emma are dead so all the kids have split up and i have accounted for them all (well thats if louisa is lizzie) apart from rose. rose should of been 21 in 1901 and i have found her getting married in 1902. now all the older ones are working and emily who is 12 is living with her uncle james clutterbuck and his family..she is down as his niece. now they have a rosa clutterbuck living there as well and she is 22 and a teacher but she is down as a daughter. do you think theres any chance she could be rose ? her age is about right and i cant find any others that are simular to rose clutterbuck..but why would they have her down as a daughter? sorry to keep asking questions but im sat here very confused lol thanks :o) alex

I think it was quite common for employers to forget/not know their servant's names. Louisa is quite a 'nice' name and some employers, crashing snobs that they were, might think this was too posh for a servant, and call her Lizzie instead - or Lizzie might have been her 'usual' name. I have even read that some employers had fixed names for their servants - Charles was always the First Footman, Rose was always the Parlour Maid, regardless of what their real names were. It saved the poor employer the fag of having to remember the servants names. Olde Crone

Again, with names, it could be how the enumerator heard the name (hence so many 'errors' on ancestry). Look how often you see something like 'Henery' for Henry! And also depends on who gave the names. If they are in lodgings, the landlord may not know them that well. I spent months looking for my Jonas and he turned up eventually in lodgings as Thomas. Its an unusual surname so that helped me find him plus right name for wife, right place of birth, date and occupation (mariner) but gawd knows how you would work that out if you had a Smith. It may be that they use a nickname - I had a girl called Ellen who apart from her birth cert was called Minnie for every census up to her marriage cert when she again became Ellen (her mother was also Ellen so I can only assume she was given a nickname to distinguish the two).

hi, thanks to you all, yes i think you have all helped, i think i do have the right family and im just looking on ancestory now and i think i have found the 2 oldest children..mary jane got married in 1890 which is why she isnt in the 1891 census with her family and i think i found frederick working as a canal boatsman in 1901. and like you say i guess they werent really that bothered about their ages in those days. i do get a bit confused however about names..did they put different forenames down on the census's alot. im trying to track my gr grandmother, she was the louisa clutterbuck on the 1891 census but i cant find her anywhere on the 1901 census..and i know she didnt get married till 1912. her sister rose has also done the dissapearing trick! i have found a lizzie clutterbuck who is a couple of years older and who is a servant and thats the closest i can get? i was wondering if maybe her employers forgot her name or something daft like that? :o)thank you, alex :o)

Also, a lot of people gave their place of birth as where they grew up, not excatly where they were born, for example, someone born in London but grew up in Cambridge might think Cambridge is his birthplace. Many people just didnt know their exact ages or birthplaces and just simply guessed when giving the info to the enumerator. I think more and more people knew their exact ages and birthplaces once civil reg began, as they would have a birth certificate to verify their birthplaces, not just baptism records, which in them days were kept hidden in church vestries. Ben

does 1871 help to clarify things?or cloud the issue? Emma Clutterbuck abt 1849 Whittington Wife Whittington Worcestershire John Clutterbuck abt 1846 Whittington Head Whittington Worcestershire Mary Jane Clutterbuck abt 1871 Whittington Daughter Whittington Worcestershire john is albourer the address is 'lake' ~ i guess thats 'near to the,,,, ' not 'in the ,,,,'!!

Looks good to me.....you may find a couple of the children have left home or might have died. Pershore reg district covers these places: Pershore Created 1st July 1837. Sub-districts : Eckington; Pershore; Upton Snodsbury. GRO volumes : XVIII (1837-51); 6c (1852-1930). Abberton, Besford, Birlingham, Bishampton, Bredicot, Bricklehampton, Broughton Hackett, Charlton, Churchill, Cropthorne, Defford, Dormston, Eckington, Elmley Castle, Fladbury, Flyford Flavell, Grafton Flyford, Great Comberton, Hill and Moor, Kington, Little Comberton, Naunton Beauchamp, Netherton, North Piddle, Norton by Kempsey, Peopleton, Pershore, Pinvin, Pirton, Spetchley, Stoulton, Strensham, Throckmorton, Upton Snodsbury, White Ladies Aston, Whittington, Wick, Wyre Piddle. So it's CORRECT if the person was born in Whittington! Merry

hi thanks for all your replies.. well i thought maybe they were'nt that bothered on keeping tabs on there ages as id read on here it can sometimes vary. heres a couple of examples which are confusing me.. i was looking at the 1891 census and think i founf the family im looking for and they are: john clutterbuck, head, 48, engineman born swinstead worcester emma clutterbuck, wife, 46, born whittington rose clutterbuck, daught, 10 born worcester louisa clutterbuck, daught, 4 born worcester emily clutterbuck, daught, 2 born worcester the adress written down i think is little park rd no 1 court no 2, worcs then 1881 census is really wierd, i thought it would be john, emma and rose as she would have been a baby but they have 3 other children living with them! and the road is the same but they are living at a differnt number and the ages are a few years out: john clutterbuck, 34, head,couldnt read the occupation,born worcester emma, wife, 32 born whittington mary j, 10 born swinstead, worcester frederick, 7 born worcester george, 5 born worcester rose 1 born worcester address written then was 7 little park rd i looked up mary janes birth and she was born in 1871 jan quart, in pershore..bit of a difference to whittington? and god knows where the children went though i suppose in those days 15 might of been a normal age to leave home? thanks for all your help :o)

Very normal! Some of mine were 10 years younger 10 years later..... if you see what I mean! :-) Joy

It is commonplace for people's ages and places of birth to ''wander'' a bit from one census to another. For ages.....people were much less concerned with exact dates in the Victorian era - maybe the only person to ask your age would be the census enumerator and that's only every ten years!! For places....a lot would depend on what you were asked.....''Where were you born??'' and ''Where do you come from'' might generate different answers if you moved when you were six months old but lived in the next place for 20 years!! It's down to practice and experience deciding whether records match.....If you want others opinions just post an example of anything that is troubling you! Merry

Hi Alexandra Ancestors tend to be quite casual about their ages. Depending on how far back you have gone, many of them could not read or write and therefore probably forgot exactly how old they were. As for place of birth, that varies as well. The further away they were living from where they were born, the more likely they seem to be to give the name of the nearest largish place that the enumerator may have heard of, rather than the name of the actual village. It's quite logical. I mean, if someone in your own town asks you where you live, you will probably give the name of the road. If someone in another town asks you, you would just name the town. If you were in a different country, you might just say England. Whether you have found the right person depends a lot on their name. If it is an unusual one, you can be more confident than if it is Smith or Jones. But then again, even unusual names can crop up a lot in one small area where lots of people are related. You need to look for other confirming evidence - like brothers and sisters living with them etc. Tina

hi happy new year to you all, im just trying to look up my ancestors on all the census's and the ages of my ancestors (if they are the same ones) seem to keep going up by a couple of years on each one... does anyone know if this is normal or do i have the wrong people? also on 1 census it has the daughter being born in whittington but i found a birth entry saying pershore which isnt that far away, but i would say a few miles..do you think that it is the correct 1? thank you for any help :O)