Genealogy Chat

I have been trying to trace records of my Grandad and Ggrandad, found a birth cert for gdad b 24/11/1919 Prestwich Lancs, mother is named as Fanny Banor, nee goldberg, however, the b cert is registered as Joseph Banov, i was told he served in MN during ww2 but can find no trace on the NA site, on his b cert no record of father entered, however, on his marriage cert it is entered as father General Labourer Joseph Banor deceased. where do i go from here, no records of GGdad on any census and no record of marriage for fanny goldberg and Joseph Banor.Banov. Any tips greatly appreciated. Louisa x

Joseph Banor b 1863 Durham on the 1871 census. ian

Do you think they may be Jewish? Ah, I see Ian has found your man's ancestor?. Seems like they may have changed their name a bit??

Yes i think, from what i can gather from family members, that My grandads parents were both Jewish, but no one knows their names or where they came from. I was convinced i had the wrong b cert, as my mum told me Grandad was adopted (or as she said dumped on someones doorstep) she also said that they had something to do with the fur trade, so when i got b cert his mother Fanny Banor nee Goldberg, is registered as a Ladies Mantle Maker of 1 stanley street cheetham, so i presume thats the same as like gowns or shawls so i suppose maybe she was right.

im nudging this in the hope of some tips and where to go next.

So we are saying his mum was a married person (hence the formerly Goldberg) but she didn't name a father for her child? If I've got that bit right, I wonder if this is her? Marriages Dec 1906 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>BANOV Cassell Emile Manchester 8d 475 FRIEDMAN Esther Manchester 8d 475 >>>>GOLDBERG Fanny Manchester 8d 475 SMOLENSKI Lipu Manchester 8d 475 and her hubby, Cassell Banov? Merry

Hi Merry, It could be, im all new to this, so dont fully understand the layout of records, the 2nd name is that the spouse? The only thing was the name, my grandad said his dad had same name as him Joseph Banor, maybe he was a fugitive and changed his name, someone mentined adoption so maybe its a made up name that Fanny decided just to register him then had him adopted, maybe he was illigitimate, i am stuck here, the only reason i think these things is because there are no records of any other Joseph Banor/Banov other than my grandad and 1 from 1861 in Durham, so im thinking maybe Fanny already married and had affair with someone else?

There's another child with the same parental details in the index......maybe you should get this one to see about the dad? Surname Forename Mothers maiden name District Page No Event Quarter Year Banov Beatrice Goldberg Manchester.8d 353 Birth 3 1917 Banov Joseph Goldberg Prestwich.8d 591 Birth 4 1919 There are no other Goldberg/Banov children (or Goldberg/Banor) registered after 1911Q3 (when the mum's name was added to the index). Merry

Wow, the 1919 is my Grandad, i will get the certificate for the first one though, that looks very interesting, all i need is a little lead off the certificate, i started my search last year, and interviewd everyone still living my dad and all, and noone knew a thing, couldnt even tell me their grandparents name, never even recalled my gdad speaking of them, so i basically started with nothing, its tookme all this time to trace this.. lol never mind ill get there eventually, Your a star thanks for your help.

You can have two or four couples marrying with the same ref (hence the four names I posted further up........ You cannot tell who married who from the index alone, but as we are lookinf for people with fairly unusual names I would guess the two marked >>>> married each other! I should think the Banov/Banor names are a halfhearted attempt at Anglicizing the name. The dad's name being given possibly incorrectly when the son married is a common occurance where the person was illegitimate. If you were a man, the easiest name to ''invent'' for your father, was someone named the same as yourself. I'm not saying this is definitely what happened here....but it's possible! She might even have had a relationship with someone in her husband's family, called Joseph! I looked for a death of the husband, but couldn't see one up to 1920. Another possibility is that Cassell changed his name to Joseph, though that doesn't explain why he isn't on the birth cert. merry

How sure are you of that final R? in lower-case script, ''v'' can look very like ''r'', and ''ov'' is a recognised name-ending... think Romanov. Christine

Thank you so much, i am going to go on Monday and get the certificate and see what comes of that one, Thank you again for your help, Lou x

Yeah i was a bit miffed when it came up on index as Joseph Banov, and not Banor, on the b cert its difficult to tell the difference and anyone interpereitng? you know what i mean, it could easily mix the 2 up, i am gonna get the other cert on monday see if that brings anything up. Thanks

For future reference, I wonder if this is fanny and family in 1901. her dad is a tailor: Bessie Goldberg abt 1863 Russia Wife Preston Lancashire Esther Goldberg abt 1884 Russia Daughter Preston Lancashire Eva Goldberg abt 1891 Russia Daughter Preston Lancashire Fanny Goldberg abt 1882 Russia Daughter Preston Lancashire Isarel Goldberg abt 1857 Russia Head Preston Lancashire Myer Goldberg abt 1896 Preston, Lancashire, England Son Preston Lancashire Rebecca Goldberg abt 1889 Russia Daughter Preston Lancashire Sarah Goldberg abt 1895 Preston, Lancashire, England Daughter Preston Lancashire The majority of Goldbergs are in London. Not to say she couldn't be one of those who moved to lancs in the early 1900's........ Merry

They could be, i did find som Goldbergs registered in Prestwich Manchester in 1901 census Israel Russian Head Leah Wife, and then 3 children Elizabeth Fanny and Sophia, but it could be completely the opposite to what i was thinking, as my Grandad was registered in Prestwich Lancs/Cheetham Lancs, Hiss address givven on b cert was 123 crescent Road Cheetham, and also that was given as Fanny's address when it was registered on 3rd Dec 1919.

Goldbergs in the Fur Trade in Manchester are 100% guaranteed to be Jewish. Prestwich was teeming with Jews and Fur Traders in the 1800s. I know this cos I grew up in Cheetham Hill, which is also a Jewish Quarter. A useful site for Jewish Ancestors is um, lost it from my favourites, but its something like Jewishgen - perhaps someone else knows? They may have married in Synagogue as well, in which case there should be something in the synagogue records. Manchester Library has some Jewish records, but I don't know if they have an on-line index? You may not know that Jewish people in England had an English name AND a Jewish name (for synagogue), so Cassell and Joseph might be the same person. Good luck Olde Crone

Lol i never even thought of synagogues having seperate records maybe thats why i cannot find any details i will certainly make this my next line of enquiry. Thank you

Thank you guys for all your help this evening, i am off to bed as my eyes are now hurting been on for hours, Truly thanks for helping i really appreciate it. Louisa x