Genealogy Chat

Hi, Heather was a big help to me too! Can't remember how I found it but try www.angelfire.com/BobSanders/Essex81.html for ships in port in 1881 I found from this where my gt gt gt uncle was on the night of the census. All my family on grandmothers side were lightermen/watermen so happy to see if any names crop up if you wish. regards Rose

nudging for later use - thanks Gill

Helen, well he may have been an out of town lighterman family! The apprenticeship bindings on parish.registers are for the Thames area, any further out and you are blown Im afraid. What is his name and does he have a middle name? And what about his wifes name or his mums name - he may have sneaked in that way! If not a lighterman father, does he father come up as a 'mariner'. Ive noticed on some baptisms that the clerk will write 'mariner' as fathers occupation even when you know he was a lighterman/waterman - I guess messing about on boats was all the same to some clerks/vicars. Oh and guys, I am definitely NOT an expert, anything I know is down to James and Rob! And the books and cds Ive bought plus my dear old dad's memory.

Told Tracey she needed Heather! Jay

I have an ancestor who was a lighterman, and have found the parish register site very useful - found most of his children on it, and his apprentice record. But Heather, can I take issue with your interbreeding - I can't find where this b***** of mine came from no matter where I look. He came from somewhere that don't exist!!!! Helen

........... and www.museumindocklands.org.uk and for the Guildhall library where the staff are very helpful http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/ corporation/leisure_heritage/libraries_archives_museums_galleries/city_london_libraries/guildhall_lib.htm (sorry that's so long) Joy

Well, I didn't know about the incest, but we did mention the other things, didn't we, Glen ? .... :-)

Blooming heck Heather,you will be heading for RSI with a reply like that,just because it is a pet subject don't rub our noses in our inferior knowledge> Glen

Hi, how much of the bindings info did it give? James Legon is the authority and Rob Cotrell. Rob produces the cds of the bindings and lots of other goodies. parishregister*com is the site for Dockland Ancestors. I think James is on hols at moment but you can buy cds and stuff on the site and they are all great. You can also search dock church registers on there - dates not transcribed anywhere else for baptisms. The more in depth stuff you will have to go to the Guildhall for - if you are lucky you can pick up things like quarterage payments - a fee they paid for thei licence - which can tell you when they started/stopped working. Have a look at dockland ancestors though, its very interesting. As already said James has recently published his own book 'My ancestor was a lighterman'. Watermen actually carried passengers and small goods across and along the Thames. Lightermen were the 'lorry drivers' of the Thames, going out to load and unload cargoes onto their lighters. Watermen/lightermen were a close knit incestuous bunch who considered themselves the aristocracy of the docks. The apprenticeships were normally 7 years and it was frowned upon if you married in that time - it was really not allowed. I have one poor sod who ended up taking 20 years to finish his apprenticeship because he committed the sin of marriage when he was only 5 years into his apprenticeship. There were overage boys apprenticeships of only 2 years but these were looked down upon by the full service men. Many lightermen/watermen were pressed into naval service because of their skills and on the dockland ancestors site you can see some lists of men whose employers appealed against their impressment. The one really good thing about them being incestuous is that if you have one then you can probably trace another dozen of them. I have something into the hundreds now - all interbreeding over 200 years and you can follow them as one family would train another and then marry into a third and then back again and often their masters surname would be used as a middle name for their children,. Fascinating stuff.

... and www.thamespilot.org.uk www.geocities*.*com/watermenarchive and, as Gillian said, the rootsweb mailing list for Thames Watermen

Cheek, Mr Barton!! ... :-) I was about to add the watermens site, too, so there!! The Museum in Docklands is well worth a visit, too ... to get the feel, the sense of it all... :-) Joy

You should start here.... http://www.watermenshall.org/history/ancestors.htm (Don't pay attenton to Glen and Marion.... they're lightweights! ;-) )

Have you looked at this site ? www.parishregister*.*com. I visited the Guildhall in London and found the apprenticeship records for my Trelawney Fletcher. Bless him, there wasn't a lot to find, he drowned in the Thames, aged 15. And I visited the Watermen's Hall in London (not far from Pudding Lane, if I remember correctly), and walked through the door and along the corridor where all apprentices would have walked.... :-) Joy

There is a website 'docklands ancestors'. Can't remember the url and i have just (only just too) deleted it from my favourites. Glen

Tracey, you need Heather positive thinker - she is extremely well-informed on this topic. Jay

There's a new book out by James Legon that help you - it's available thorugh the Society of Genealogists. Alison

Also Tracey you could do a topic search on this board because the subject has come up a few times over the past couple of years. Roger Gc

If you do a google search for Thames Waterman, several links will appear. Rose

I have a reference (found on microfiche in my local library) for the bindings of two of my ancestors who were Thames watermen. Can any one tell me the most effective way of finding more information please. Tracey