Genealogy Chat

Everyone was asked, ''and were you born in THIS county or elsewhere?''......................I was just looking at some 1841 census sheets for people living in Christchurch, Hampshire. I noticed they accurately stated ''No'' for mum, dad and first born, who came from Dorset. They then also stated ''No'' for the children born in Southampton and then ''Yes'' for the last child, born in Christchurch where they were living...........So, they said ''No'' for born in Southampton, which the census generally puts in Hampshire and I always consider to be in Hampshire.......Just a mistake, I thought......BUT.....BMD certs for Southampton say, ''In the COUNTY of Southampton'' (not Hampshire) on them.....So, would large towns be considered Counties by the population, or is this a one off????? Happy Hunting - Merry x

Well, that was a long-winded way of saying something simple, wasn't it???!!! Merry

Very interesting Marry. I have a Great Great grandad in Southampton who is proving impossible find. I'll have another hunt now. Linda

Merry, Is this, I wonder, similar to others I have found. Christchurch (today) is in Dorset. Have the county borders changed? Certainly in the 41 census I have found the way the counties listed to be different from 51 onwards. Snowdrops

Merry - Southampton was the official name of the county until 1959, when it changed to Hampshire. Richard

Christchurch moved to Dorset in 1974, before that it was in Hampshire. Richard - HELP!!!! - this is what I'm talking about.....If Southampton was in Southampton County, why does this show up nowhere but on BMD certs (I mean, the census always says Hampshire and many other sources say Southampton was in Hampshire).......is it something to do with Administrative Counties versus Historic Counties?? I use mum's school atlas to do my ''place'' research (she is old enough to have one where ''half the world is pink''! LOL) and Southampton is in Hants on that!! HELP??!!!

Hi Merry According to Wikipedia, the county used to be known as ''Southamptonshire'', which means the same thing as ''County of Southampton'' (shire being county). I guess that Southamptonshire was too much of a mouthful, leading to the name being shortened to ''Hampshire'', and further abbreviated to ''Hants'' (why not ''Hamps'' I wonder?). Later on (i.e. 1959!), officialdom caught up with popular usage and made the name change official. A similar thing happened with other county names, eg. County of Lancaster - Lancashire - Lancs. Richard

Ooooh, flippin' complicated then! I will have to stop hubby from reading this, as lots of his family come from Southampton and we have always argued about the certs with ''County of Southampton'' on them!! No, I don't know why it's Hants not Hamps either!! So, in 1841 in and out of county might be even more complicted than we first thought then?? Given that the old Southamptonshire seems to have shrunk to include Southampton only, whilst the county of Hampshire covers a much wider area. Merry

Hi Merry - glad that it's now clear as mud then! I think that you can safely assume that the town of Southampton is and always has been in Southamptonshire / County of Southampton / Hampshire / Hants / Hamps even! If they're shown in 1841 as ''out of county'' then I would take that to mean out of Hampshire, not just out of the town of Southampton. Cheers, Richard

Actually Merry, if you look at the 1841 census images, just picking Godshill at random, and it turns out to be on the Isle of Wight!, the actual census pages don't have county on them, but if you look at 'description of enumeration district' at the beginning of each section, it says 'County of Southampton'. Kate.

That's all very interesting! I was born in the County of Southampton, whereas my father's folk came from Southampton city. I'm going to look for them again..... pesky JONES'. Gwyn ....from Hamps.!

So do the town of Southampton enumeration district descriptions: ''County of Southampton'', ''City, borough or town of Southampton'', etc.

Aargh, Merry, you'll get me googling Northants soon, to see how far back that goes. And were Northants and Southants connected or were their names accidental? Questions, questions.

LOL Gwyn! Well, my rellies think Christchurch was Not in their birth county, even though the said they were born in Southampton on all later census returns! And I'd say they are both in the same county, be it Southamptonshire, or Hants! I'm not disputinng they made a mistake - just that what we might think is clearly IN or OUT of county, might not be as clear cut as we think! I don't think I like the 1841 anyway.......**strops off to do something else, like cook the kids tea, or something!** Merry

Phoenix - from Wikipedia again: Hampshire: Anglo Saxon - Formerly known as 'Southamptonshire', meaning is 'shire of Southampton': Southern town of Hamo (Hamo refers to a 5th century Saxon invader and settler) Northamptonshire: Anglo Saxon - Shire of Northampton: Northern home farm Therefore, no connection!

Yes Phoenix, and........why do we have: Southampton and Northampton but no Easthampton or Westhampton and Eastbourne is in Sussex, but Westbourne, Northbourne and Westbourne are all in Bournemouth!! (Dorset, formerly Hants!) Am I related to Mr Hamo, then? **rushes to check tree** Merry

Glad you looked that up for me Richard....it's been bothering me for 35 years and I'm only 41½! LOL Merry

Merry - lol. But there is an Easthampstead, in Berkshire and a Westhampnett, in Sussex! That Mr Hamo must have done a lot of invading and settling...

Suppose his weapon was a hamo, like a hammer but...........um..... Merry