Genealogy Chat

What if John Joy was illegitimate and his 'father' James (deceased) was just made up to make him seem more respectable for the marriage. Quite a lot of illegitimate children suddenly aquire 'deceased fathers' for their marriage. Kath. x

Hi Paul I would be looking for the birth of John Joy. I have checked on the beta ancestry listings 1863 - 1867 for you & there's more than you'd imagine, but you may be able to discount some of them straight away - the rest you could ask for a reference check with father as James Joy! Jun Q 1864 Joy, John - Torrington 5b 515 Sep Q 1864 Joy, John Charles - Bedford 3b 305 Jun Q 1865 Joy, John - Tunbridge 2a 487 Sep Q 1865 Joy, John Joseph - Liverpool 8b 160 Dec Q 1865 Joy, John - St Luke 1b 695 Joy, John Henry - Manchester 8d 220 Sep Q 1866 Joy, John - York 9d 15 Dec Q 1866 Joy, John - Pocklington 9d 63 Jun Q 1867 Joy, John James - Rotherhithe 1d 636 Sep Q 1867 Joy, John - Wrexham 11b 348 Dec Q 1867 Joy, John James - Manchester 8d 228 Please also check these for yourself as my eyes go funny this time of night! Good luck in your search. regards Bridie

Hi Georgina, Many thanks for your reply. I believe this John Joy also appears in the 1901 census and so drew a blank once again Charles Joy c1898 Far Cotton, Northamptonshire, England Son Far Cotton Northamptonshire Florence Joy c1873 Haynes, Bedfordshire, England Wife Far Cotton Northamptonshire John Joy c1873 Haynes, Bedfordshire, England Head Far Cotton Northamptonshire Mary Joy c1900 Far Cotton, Northamptonshire, England Daughter Far Cotton Northamptonshire Wilfred Joy c1897 Haynes, Bedfordshire, England Son Far Cotton Northamptonshire The only difference I can see is that it says Haynes and not Hawnes but both are down as Bedfordshire Many thanks Paul

Hi Maureen Once again many thanks for your link given above. This John Joy was also married in Cardiff and according to one of his relatives, moved down to the south coast to live. Another member on GR who has been tracing this family has been in contact with me and supplied the info. Name: John Joy Age in 1901: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1875 Relation: Head Male Where born: London, England Civil parish: Canton Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Source information: RG13/4984 Registration district: Cardiff Sub-registration district: West Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Folio: 165 Page: 39 Household schedule number: 202 Lilly Joy abt 1878 Plymouth, Devon, England Wife Lilian Joy abt 1900 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Winifred Joy abt 1897 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Wm Joy abt 1899 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Son Unfortunately this was not the John Joy I was seeking. However the link given below is for the John Joy I am seeking. It is the marriage certificate for John Joy and Mary Jane Grant which I have. Name: John Joy Year of Registration: 1892 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Cardiff (1837-1974) County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 564a Many thanks. Paul

Hi Maureen, I think this is one of the John Joy's who I found to be still alive and well in 1901. John Joy c1861 Head - Alverdiscott, Devon, Landcross Devon Emily Joy c1861 Wife - Bradworthy, Devon, Landcross Devon James Joy c1898 Son - Bideford, Devon, Landcross Devon Charles Joy c1880 Son - Bideford, Devon, Landcross Devon John Joy c1889 Son - Bideford, Devon, Landcross Devon Walter Joy c1895 Son - Bideford, Devon, Landcross Devon Many thanks. Paul

Paul, Just thought I would check this thread to see if any progress had been made but think I am more confused as to the age of John Joy. Marriage cert dated 1892 says age 26 = 1866 Altered cert says age 28 = 1864 Death cert dated 1900 says age 31 = 1869 So clutching at straws with this suggestion on 1871 as you have probably already followed this one through the census 1871 Civil Parish: Bideford Town: Bideford County/Island: Devon Country: England Source information: RG10/2200 Registration district: Bideford Sub-registration district: Bideford ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Folio: 45 Page: 11 Household schedule number: 67 GSU Number: 834864 James Joy abt 1832 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Head Mary Joy abt 1832 Yarnscombe, Devon, England Wife Elizabeth Joy abt 1862 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Daughter James Joy abt 1867 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Son John Joy abt 1864 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Son Mary Joy abt 1859 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Daughter Sarah Joy abt 1830 Alverdiscott, Devon, England Daughter Maureen

Hi Gang, Sorry, I have not 'nodded off', quite like that one. Unfortunately something had come up that severed my fingers from the computer. Before I dissappear again I have the following information. This I should have included in the original mail. Sorry I do not know where John Joy was born as all the John Joy's I have traced so far all seemed to be alive and well in 1901 census That why I am trying to find a John Joy + James Joy in any of the earlier census. He married Mary Jane Grant, spinster, aged 22 yrs in Cardiff, 23 June 1892. He was down as 26 yrs, batchelor, but this age was changed in 1923 by the Registrar to 28?. The wedding certificate was incorrect since they were registered as Joyce and this was also corrected by the Registrar in 1923 back to Joy John Joy died aged 31 in Cardiff 8 Feb 1900 (certifcate) They had two children, John Joy 1897 and Mabel Joy 1898 born in Cardiff Mary Jane Joy remarried - 1 Jan 1901 to a Thomas David Newberry, batchelor, aged 29 yrs. The only reference I have to John Joy's father James is from the wedding certificate. I think this is all the information that I have. I really do not want anyone to do all the leg work for me and am dissapointed with that comment. It was that I posted it just before I had to go off and this is the first opportunity I have had to read my mail. If I have offended anyone then once again I'm sorry. Once again I have to go out but will be home later this evening and will catchup. I have not read all the replies yet and will now start to read through them. Thanks a lot to everyone who have taken the time and trouble to help me. Again it is appreciated. Cheers Paul

Interesting the marriage in 1896 as that would fit in nicely with the ages of the children of the family I found in 1901. Oh well we will just have to wait for more information. Maureen

Well, I'm through with guessing, Georgina! Nite nite Merry

Merry, Paul seems to have left us to guess who his family were. Why do we bother. Georgina.

on the other hand, it's always possible the reason we can't find the groom in 1901 is that he's dead? Deaths Mar 1900 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joy John 31 Cardiff 11a 244 Merry

John and Lily Joy didn't marry until 1896.....did wonder if it's the same groom though? Marriages Sep 1896 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joy John Cardiff 11a 440a MOYES Lily Elizabeth Cardiff 11a 440a Pothecary Eva Annie Cardiff 11a 440a RICH Alfred Ashman Cardiff 11a 440a Merry

Is there anything on the TV worth watching? Typical that the marriage does not have the brides name Name: John Joy Year of Registration: 1892 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Cardiff (1837-1974) County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 564a Just wondering if this is the family in 1901 but does not really help to trace with only London as a place of birth Name: John Joy Age in 1901: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1875 Relation: Head Male Where born: London, England Civil parish: Canton Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Source information: RG13/4984 Registration district: Cardiff Sub-registration district: West Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Folio: 165 Page: 39 Household schedule number: 202 Lilly Joy abt 1878 Plymouth, Devon, England Wife Lilian Joy abt 1900 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Winifred Joy abt 1897 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Wm Joy abt 1899 Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales Son Maureen

I think your right Reg.LOL Georgina.

I think Paul's nodded off.......... Reg

Paul we could really do with his age & place of birth. There is this family on the 1881 census. James JOY Head M Male 52 Hawnes, Bedford, England Ag Lab Mary Ann JOY Wife M Female 49 Biggleswade, Bedford, England Joseph JOY Son U Male 21 Hawnes, Bedford, England Ag Lab Thomas JOY Son U Male 18 Hawnes, Bedford, England Ag Lab Mary A. JOY Daur Female 16 Hawnes, Bedford, England Domestic Servant George JOY Son Male 14 Hawnes, Bedford, England Ag Lab Emily JOY Daur Female 11 Hawnes, Bedford, England Scholar John JOY Son Male 9 Hawnes, Bedford, England Scholar Robert JOY Son Male 6 Hawnes, Bedford, England Scholar Source Information: Dwelling Northwood End Census Place Hawnes, Bedford, England Family History Library Film 1341391 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1634 / 16 Page Number 25 This would be the above John Joy's christening record from the IGI.. JOHN LARKIN JOY Male Event(s): Birth: Christening: 09 JUN 1872 Haynes, Bedford, England Parents: Father: JAMES JOY Mother: MARY ANN Georgina.

We need at least to know how old the son was when he married, and where he was born. 1901 census details would be a great help Reg

1881 is completely free on www.familysearch.org Reg

Hi, No matter how hard I look I cannot find a John Joy with a father James Joy on any of the census. Details from John's wedding certificate:- Cardiff, June 1892 and says father James Joy deceased. If anyone could locate them for me on any of the census formsI'd be very grateful. Many thanks Paul