Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find a Thomas family on the 1901 census. Their details are: Albert G. Thomas b. 1866 in Tenby, Pembrokeshire, his wife Julia b.1866 in Scotland and their children Daisy b. 1895 and Pamela b. 1896 in Plumstead, London. I found a Thomas family at 13 Ordnance Road Plumstead, which is next door to where Julia was living in 1891. The family here though are Alfred instead of Albert (same birthdate, birthplace and occupation), Irene instead of Julia (same birthdate and birthplace) , Dorothy instead of Daisy and Phoebe instead of Pamela. Also a mystery extra daughter, Irene. Could they possibly be the same ones? It seems so unusual to have a carpenter from Tenby and his Scottish wife living next door to where 'my' Thomas family should be! What do you reckon?

is a tough one jacqui i have had an Albert mistaken for an alfred in one family, but there quite alot of discrepancies in your family, I would be doubtful if I where you, haev you read the names from the image? sometimes Ancestry put them on the main page incorrectly

Thanks for your reply...yes I have read the names from the image, they seem quite clear. I think you're probably right. I'm clutching at straws here!.

We all clutch at straws so do sympathise with you Good Luck karen x

Some questions!...... Do you have birth certs for these children? (or any of them?) Was Julia single in 1891 and married in 1901? If she was, what was her maiden name? Merry

I wouldn't dismiss them. My grandmother Ethel and her uncle Chapman are on the 1901 census as Elizabeth and Charlotte. I know they are the right people by their ages and the other people in the household. If the other people in the household weren't there I would have dismissed them. I spent an absolute age looking for an Ethel. I don't know who is worst sometimes - enumerators or transcribers, lol. Kath. x

Hello Merry - no I don't have birth certificates for the children. Julia was single in 1891 living at 11 Ordnance Road with her sister. Her maiden name was Hunt. She married Albert George Thomas on 18/4/1891. Does this help?

Why can't I find the people you mention (the alternative names!) on the 1901??? I'm now looking at 13 Ordnance Road and the people are called Mayhew. This is the only Ordnance Road I can find :o(( The only Julia Thomas born in Scotland I can find is too old to have young children.... Please put me out of my mysery!! Merry

Sorry, forgot to add that I don't have Julia's birth certificate either, only know she was born in Scotland, and I'm waiting (and waiting..) for Albert's to arrive in the post.

Right found them!! Not Plumstead, Woolwich! Arthur G Thomas abt 1867 Burgenland, Tenby Head Woolwich London Dorothy Thomas abt 1896 Woolwich, London, England Daughter Woolwich London Irene Thomas abt 1866 Scotland Wife Woolwich London Irene Thomas abt 1893 Woolwich, London, England Daughter Woolwich London Lily Thomas abt 1900 Woolwich, London, England Daughter Woolwich London Phoebe Thomas abt 1897 Woolwich, London, England Daughter Woolwich London Sorry, it's just that I have to find the census to see who we are talking about!! Right......now, I've forgotten the Q!!! Oh yes.......names...... Back in a mo. Merry

Initial thoughts before I have actually looked at the images - I have a family in my tree where all the children have different names on two consecutive censuses, and it is because they all had middle names and were, presumably, known by them. I'll get back to you when I've had a look at yours. Kate.

Oh, still waiting for the image to load, but another thought that springs to mind is that Arthur could be Albert's brother and Irene Julia's sister? Kate.

Well, it's nice and convenient that all the children are said (on the census) to be born in Woolwich, which is a district in it's own right. Lets take them one at a time....... Lets forget the two Irene's for a minute...... They have Dorothy 5, you want Daisy There are birth registrations for both these names within the time frame in Woolwich, so that doesn't prove anything. Phoebe 4, you want Pamela Now, there's no birth reg for a Phoebe or Phebe Thomas in Woolwich, but there are two Pamela's!! One seems too old, the other only has Pamela as a middle name: Name: Pamela Lucy Thomas (Too old????!) Year of Registration: 1895 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Woolwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 1293 Name: Patricia Pamela Thomas (middle name??) Year of Registration: 1897 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Woolwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 1207 Now I'll look to see if there are other candidates for these two birth certs on the 1901 (and see neither died......) Merry

Sorry sorry sorry! I have confused everyone because what I should have said is my man is ALFRED and the one on the census is ARTHUR. There isn't an Albert! Really sorry. Thanks for your idea Kate, but Julia's sisters were Sarah and Margaret.

Oh and 8 year old Irene doesn't have a birth reg either. BUT.....I bet she real name is Julia and whoever spoke to the enumerator (a neighbour?) knew the eldest girl was named for her mum, but then got mum's name wrong!!: Name: Julia Adeline Thomas Year of Registration: 1893 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Woolwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 1294 Going back to Pamela now........... Merry

Right....the two birth registrations for Pamela Thomas..... The one born in 1895, Pamela Lucy, died the same year. This leaves the birth reg for Patricia Pamela which is the right date. I cannot find any other Pamela or Patricia Thomas' brn in the Woolwich area on the 1901 census, so it would be extremely tempting to think this birth reg (and Phoebe on the census) are the entries for the person you seek. I wonder.....both Pamela and Patricia were fairly uncommon names in 1901.....when this hopeless neighbour (who I've invented) gave the enumerator the details of the Thomas family, I can just hear them saying.....''Now the next child is another girl, um....can't think of her name?? Something beginning with P, I think''....and the smart enumerator says, ''Phoebe??'' and the neighbour says, ''Doesn't that begin with ''F''??'' and the enumerator says no, so the neighbour assumes he must have the right name!!! I would buy the cert for Patricia Pamela and hope she has the correct parents and better still was born at 13 Ordnance Road. In 1881 hubby's relations are down as Arthur, Emily and Charles, when they are actually Alfred, Emma and Clark, so it does happen! Merry

Thanks so much Merry for all your sleuthing (not the first time you've helped me out!) I am warming to the idea of a hopeless neighbour.... Will send for the birth certificate and keep my fingers crossed. Thanks again, Jacqui

By the 1901 census, many of the householders ought to have been in a position to complete their own census forms. The enumerator would then be faced with a stack of forms, all in different handwriting. In earlier censuses, the enumerator would have had a much more 'hands on' approach, either completing the forms or advising how they should be completed. We are looking at copies, rather than the original documents, which probably accounts for the larger than usual number of errors. My friend's Great Aunt Flo is down as Clarence (with age moved from female to male column) and one day I'll get the sleuths to see if they can find her cousin Linda. She's on the 1901 census and once you've found her you know it's her, but she does take a bit of finding.