Genealogy Chat

I have often seen threads on here saying isn't it sad when you see the above word to describe people......mainly in baptism records, but also sometimes on marriage certs and other records. I have tended to agree with these sentiments.......However.......I was just reading the will of a very rich and influential man (not a rellie!!) who described himself as ''Rose Beckford bachelor bastard of Broad Street London and Jamaica''.......(yes he was a man named Rose LOL).....Anyway, I might have thought he would say the natural son of XYZ if he wanted to say he wasn't legitimate....Beckford was his biological father's surname and the surname he used all his life.....but he felt the need, or his solicitor did, to use ''THAT word'' instead. I now think the B word was perhaps not such a derogatory term in the past.....just a general description of someone born out of wedlock........What do others think? Happy Hunting - Merry x

Oh yes Im sure thats so, otherwise why would people happily had it as a surname for centuries?

A lot of words which we think of as offensive were actually just the proper word for describing someone or something in the past and they didn't have the same stigma as we put on them today. If the word you read was in an official document (a will), then they were just using proper terminology, the same as solicitors would today. Kath. x

In that case, I will not have quite the same feeling about some vicars who made the B word one of their favourites!! Merry

I guess its similar to todays changing terminology - when it was used, (before it was abused) it was right and proper- like spastic and Mongel being two i can think of

Yes, good point Jess........My several-greats-uncle was described by his nephew as a ''gay sailor''! LOL Merry

Merry When I was in engineering I used to use a 'bastard' file. The grooves go in the opposite direction to a normal file. That tool has been used for years, so I guess it was just a word used to explain 'not the norm'. Kim

'Slut' is another word that has changed meaning. It used to mean just a very untidy housewife. Now it has sexual connotations.

There's a character in one of Shakespeare's plays called The Bastard. Other characters are also called Bastard - I think its just a way of identifying them rather than an abusive term. nell

I have often wondered - what makes a word a 'swear word' it is after all just a word. I have a friend who uses the word 'sugar'; all the time, if she uses it enough does it become swearing?? Mo

In Elizabethan times it was highly insulting to call somebody naughty. I remember hearing that the 'F' word is so unacceptable because it's short for 'For Christ's Sake', a terrible blasphemy in the past.

Oh Paul, my hero, another interesting snippet. However, how did it become used for the erm, act. I thought it was supposedly from the Germanic tribes use of the word which doesnt tie in with the Christ explanation, does it.

Perhaps Heather, because Paul's phrase is what the wife says when the husband asks if he might be in luck tonight???! Merry

I started doing my family tree because my dad was born illegitimate during the first world war - his mother abandoned him and he was brought up by someone else (never adopted). My mum told us the day after he died as he was too ashamed to tell us kids such was the stigma in those days. He was obviously made to feel ashamed of his past, but this didn't stop him from being a wonderful father and very protective towards his own family. I'm still trying to find his mother and 50% of my family I don't know because things were done behind closed doors then.

I would imagine the swearword and the word that described a pleasurable experience sounded almost identical and became indistinguishable. After all, in most other languages the top swearword is usually a reference to genitalia, not what they are used for!

I don't really know if B*** was offensive but I suspect that people called a spade a spade back then. A bastard is a person born out of wedlock so that's what they were called. I however am a bit of an old fashioned slut. As for the F word I have heard it is short for : Fornicating Under Consent of the King. It was a bit of a sign to others to stay away. Apparently people were not allowed to do such things without the Kings consent. I can't remember the whole story but I think the King had rights to all women or maybe a womans first time Sorry I cant remember the whole story. Toni

The 'F' word referring to the sexual act came from (I Believe) early prison records when a prisoner was incarcerated for a sex offence. Instead of writing the full term 'For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge', to record the offence, they just wrote the initials. As stated previously, the two similar sounding words probably then merged into one all encompasing expletive. Anyone know different? Derek.

It depends on the context in which a word is used whether or not it is offensive, but how do you know where to draw the line? According to the Oxford dictionary, the word b.....d is the definition of an illegitimate child, or to describe a difficult person, so where is the offence in that? Perhaps it was the stigmatism once attached to being illegitimate that caused it to become offensive. However, the word has also evolved to mean unauthorised, hybrid, counterfeit, not a genuine specimen, still occasionaly used today.

Perhaps in years to come it will be a terrible insult to call someone a Prescott!

LOL Paul.....I'd be offended NOW if I was called a Prescott!! Merry