Genealogy Chat

Can anyone tell me what a Zion Independent Chruch or Chapel is please. Thanks. Jeanette x

Hi I got one of my ancestors married in a Zion Chapel As far as I can remember it is a Methodist Chapel. Germaine x

If you Google, it seems to be Methodist Church or Chapel. Both are used on different websites. Kath. x

Thanks Germaine and Kath. Now here's a question for you! If you were christened in a methodist/zion chapel in 1800, would you be able to claim parish relief if necessary?

Now then I don't know that one I should imagine you would as you would be a part of the parish. Did they have a poor parish fund of their own I wonder. Germaine x Just had a quick google and to me it looks as though they did give Parish Relief

Hope this helps? Definition of the word Zion, 1 a,The historic land of Israel as a symbol of the Jewish people. b, The Jewish people; Israel. 2 A place or religious community regarded as sacredly devoted to God. 3 An idealized, harmonious community; utopia. Roy

Thanks Roy.........I'm assuming it was more to do with religious community rather than them being Jewish! lol. Can do without that added complication! Thanks Germaine......I asked because I once queried some of my rellies from Ireland being christened in a C of E church. I was given 2 possible reasons. First, that they may not have been elligible for parish relief had they been christened as Catholics. And secondly, that they may have been Protestants!

Jeanette I think my self it is that a Roman Catholic married a Protestant. My Great Grandmother was Catholic she married a Protestant. My grandad went to Catholic school but he married Cof E. Think it was very hard for mixed marriages in teh 1800's So I think that is the reason. Germaine x

Before the Act of Religious Tolerance (which was ??1820??) you pretty much HAD to be baptised in a C of E. You could be fined for not doing so. Most of my Ancestors were strong non-conformists and preferred to pay the fine! I think a lot depended on the particular area as to how tolerant the Parish Authorities were, but you will often see in Poor Law Records 'Mary Bloggs alias Snoggins' which indicates, not that she DIDNT marry, but that she was baptised in a nonconformist chapel and that the established Church did not recognise that baptism, nor the marriage of her parents. It was a bit of pompous spite on behalf of the Parish authorities - who were ALWAYS of the established Church. OC

My great grandparents married in a Zion Chapel in 1883 and I've no idea why. The certificate says that it was 'according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Primitive Methodists'. Both bride and groom had been christened in C of E churches and my mother remembered that her grandmother always went to church, not chapel. Gwyn

That would make sense! My 3x great Grandmother was born in Lincolnshire, but my 3x great Grandfather has an Irish surname. I haven't found him on the 1841 yet so I don't know if he was born in Yorkshire or not. And unfortunately he was dead by 1851. Thanks ever so much for all of your help Jeanette x

Thanks for your input OC and Gwyn. Infact I think it was you OC who advised me with regard to my 3x great Grandparents. My 3x great Grandmother did go on to receive parish relief after the death of her husband. But that lot are a different lot to these Zionists. I have a little conundrum concerning the Zionists, but it will have to wait til another day. I've lost the plot just thinking about it! Jeanette x

Jeanette, It does not have to be a jewish meaning. their are 3 different definitions for the word, the second one is the relevant one? 2, A place or religious community regarded as sacredly devoted to God. Roy

Jeanette Once the Zionists were able to be open about things, they did keep the most splendid records, far better than any C of E Parish Register. (Note: There is a difference between Church of England Methodists, who were an accepted branch of the Established Church, and the other Methodist break-away movements, such as the Zionists, the Primitives etc) OC

Unfortunately it would seem that the particular Zionist I am after married in a C of E church! If only she had married in the Zionist chapel, I might not be having the problems that I am now.......too many people called by the same names in two parishes quite far apart, but obviously interwoven. I feel a fag break coming on!

Zion could also be a baptist church or chapel. Zion also had a meaning as the entire true church. John Newton wrote in a hymn, Glorious things of thee are spoken, Zion City of our God.' Meaning The Church. He goes on to say 'Saviour since of Zion's City, I through faith a member am...' again, referring to the Church. David

Zion could just be the chosen name for a particular non-conformist (ie not Church of England) church or chapel, selected for its religious meaning.Others could be named after the street/road/town in which they were located, and would sometimes include the denomination eg Conregational, Baptist, Methodist etc. in the name.

Between 1754 and 1837, EVERYONE, apart from Jews and Quakers had to be married according to the rites of the Church of England for their marriages to be legal. Nonconformists often married by licence, so that they spent as little time in the church as absolutely necessary. You do occasionally find nonconformist marriages recorded in this period, but they would have had no legal weight and the children would have been treated as bastards.

Phoenix Thass what I said! LOL! OC