Genealogy Chat

Hi Elaine Here is the rest of the family in 1871. It says Thomas snr was a Farm Labourer and Thomas jnr was a Farm Servant. Caroline Knight abt 1868 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Broughton Cheshire Joseph Knight abt 1863 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Son Broughton Cheshire Martha Knight abt 1830 Llangollen Wife Broughton Cheshire Martha Knight abt 1865 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Broughton Cheshire Robert Knight abt 1860 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Son Broughton Cheshire Thomas Knight abt 1823 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Head Broughton Cheshire Thomas Knight abt 1857 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Son Broughton Cheshire I think probably Paul's Sarah in 1871 above:- Sarah Knight abt 1854 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Servant Hawarden Flintshire is probably your Sarah. This looks like Henry in 1891 Census says Farmers Assistant Name: Henry Knight Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1876 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where Born: Buckley, Flintshire, Wales Civil parish: Chester Ecclesiastical parish: St Michael and St Olave County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Source information: RG12/2863 Registration district: Chester Sub registration district: Chester Castle ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Folio: 47 Page: 3 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 6097973 No sign of William If these are the deaths of Martha and Thomas with whom did William and Henry live after their grandparents died? Name: Martha Knight Birth Date: abt 1829 Year of Registration: 1883 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at death: 54 District: Chester County: Cheshire, Flintshire Volume: 8a Name: Thomas Knight Birth Date: abt 1823 Year of Registration: 1883 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at death: 60 District: Chester County: Cheshire, Flintshire Volume: 8a

Hi Yvonne Just got your last message. William was definitely Sarah's child. I have a copy of his birth certificate which quotes Sarah Ann Knight as the mother of Thomas John Knight born 13/08/1873. I also have a letter dated 1933, written by Thomas John explaining that he has grown up with the name of William. The reason was that as Sarah had him out of wedlock, the grandparents brought him up, they already had a Thomas and a John in the family, so for distinction they called him William. He has gone through life known as William, he even got married as William. I ahve the originals handed down to proof this. The letter also explains that it was his uncle Joseph who explained this. From the 1881 Welsh census this seems to add up. Just leaves me trying to locate Sarah since then and if Henry was her child. Elaine

OC I think you have but I'm not surprised. I'm shattered and think I'll call it a night. Once again, thanks to all who have helped with the search. Good night.Elaine

Another possible Knight marriage Henry Dodd 1889 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Sarah Ann Knight 1889 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Paul

Ah here they are in 1861 with two sons as well as Sarah: Martha Knight abt 1830 Denbighshire, Wales Wife Broughton Cheshire Robert Knight abt 1860 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Son Broughton Cheshire Sarah A Knight abt 1855 Denbighshire, Wales Daughter Broughton Cheshire Thomas Knight abt 1827 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Head Broughton Cheshire Thomas Knight abt 1857 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Son Broughton Cheshire So Henry and William could be one of the brother's sons Yvonne

For reference here is Henry as grandson in 1881 Wales Census:- Caroline Knight abt 1866 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Hawarden Flintshire Henry Knight abt 1877 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Grandson Hawarden Flintshire John Knight abt 1872 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Son Hawarden Flintshire Joseph Knight abt 1863 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Son Hawarden Flintshire Martha Knight abt 1829 Llangollen Wife Hawarden Flintshire Martha Knight abt 1865 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Daughter Hawarden Flintshire Thomas Knight abt 1828 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Head Hawarden Flintshire William Knight abt 1874 Broughton, Flintshire, Wales Grandson Hawarden Flintshire So there are two grandson's living with Martha and Thomas. But there is a big gap between Sarah b circa 1855 and Joseph b circa 1863. Is it possible there was another brother of Sarah who could be the father of William and Henry? Yvonne

Thanks Yvonne. i'll check out your lead as well. She's certainly elusive but I'm determined to track her down!! Thanks for your help. Elaine

Thanks Paul. I'll certainly check that out that birth cert. Really curious who his mother was. If its Sarah and it has the fathers name on the cert, then it may help with the marriage cert. search. Let's hoping!! Thanks again for your help Elaine.

But Martha could have died and William remarried surely...or have I lost the plot? OC

There is this Sarah born Deneighshire 1855: Name: Sarah Christy Age: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Lodger Wife Household: View other family members Family and neighbors: View neighbors Gender: Female Where Born: Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales Civil parish: St Johns County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street address: 12 Balls Court Off Foregate St Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Source information: RG11/3554 Registration district: Chester Sub registration district: Chester Castle ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Folio: 85 Page: 13 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341851

This is the family of Samuel Ryland and Sarah Knight in 1881 Elizabeth Davies abt 1863 Chester, City Of Servant St Mary Cheshire Sarah Knight abt 1807 Rossett, Denbighshire, Wales Mother in Law St Mary Cheshire Samuel Ryland abt 1847 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Head St Mary Cheshire Sarah Ann Ryland abt 1847 Chester, City Of Wife St Mary Cheshire Jane Williams abt 1867 Saltney, Flintshire, Wales Servant St Mary Cheshire So this doesn't look like the same Sarah as her mother is Sarah not Martha Yvonne

OK here is a possible BMD Birth for Henry Name: Henry Knight Year of Registration: 1876 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Chester County: Cheshire, Flintshire Volume: 8a Page: 441 paul

Thanks Christine. What would I do without you and Paul on this site !!!! cheers Elaine

Sorry looks like the wrong Knight. Just found this on 1881. Elizabeth Davies abt 1863 Chester, City Of Servant St Mary Cheshire >> Sarah Knight abt 1807 Rossett, Denbighshire, Wales Mother in Law St Mary Cheshire Samuel Ryland abt 1847 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Head St Mary Cheshire >> Sarah Ann Ryland abt 1847 Chester, City Of Wife St Mary Cheshire Jane Williams abt 1867 Saltney, Flintshire, Wales Servant St Mary Cheshire Looks like that Sarah Knight's mother was also a Sarah and not a Martha ! Back to the drawing board :( Paul

Thanks Paul. Fingers crossed !! Appreciate your help. Elaine

I looked (via ukbmd.org.uk) at Cheshire BMD: Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876 to 1880 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference KNIGHT Sarah A HARRISON Henry Warrington, St Elphin Warrington C25/11/221 KNIGHT Sarah A LEIGH Isaac Norbury (Hazel Grove), St Thomas Stockport ST75/3/59 KNIGHT Sarah A RYLAND Samuel Chester, St Mary Cheshire West CE14/9/20 So that marriage you spotted in Chester was Kinght-Ryland. If you can get a copy of the Parish Register entry... 1] It's the source for the offical registration cert 2] It has the original signatures (or Xs) 3] If you're lucky it's cheaper - the price of the copy + postage; but can include search fee, which narrows the gap, or worse! Christine

Hi Elaine There is this Sarah Knight on the 1871 Sarah Knight abt 1854 Hawarden, Flintshire, Wales Servant Hawarden Flintshire There is also this marriage record Sarah Anne Knight 1880 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Samuel Ryland 1880 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Robert Williams 1880 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Lets hope (if it is her) that she married Mr Ryland :) Cheers...Paul

Sorry Elaine - Just have to reformat your message (i cant read it when GR crunches it all up!) ---------------------------------------------------------- Can Any one Help? I'm trying to find out what happened to my g g grandmother Sarah Ann Knight born abt 1855, Denbighshire. I can locate her on the 1861 England census living in Broughton, Cheshire with her parents Thomas and Martha Knight but that's it. From my records she had a son out of wedlock named Thomas John Knight born 1873 who was known as William - this is confirmed on the 1881 Welsh Census. Apparently she was a servant girl and her parents adopted the child. Not sure whether she got married or remained unmarried but I can't seem to locate her on any other census or BMD - or is it me not looking properly ?? Other then trailing through the BMD for every Sarah Ann Knight is there any easier way to locate a marriage or even a death? Also on the 1881 Welsh Census, there is a Henry Knight born 1877 who is down as a grandson but I can't locate him on the BMD to obtain a birth certificate. Want to know whether this was another of Sarah's children. Henry could be another name given by the grandparents. Any thoughts or ideas on how to track them down would be greatly appreciated. Elaine

I'm trying to find out what happened to my g g grandmother Sarah Ann Knight born abt 1855, Denbighshire. I can locate her on the 1861 England census living in Broughton, Cheshire with her parents Thomas and Martha Knight but that's it. From my records she had a son out of wedlock named Thomas John Knight born 1873 who was known as William - this is confirmed on the 1881 Welsh Census. Apparently she was a servant girl and her parents adopted the child. Not sure whether she got married or remained unmarried but I can't seem to locate her on any other census or BMD - or is it me not looking properly ?? Other then trailing through the BMD for every Sarah Ann Knight is there any easier way to locate a marriage or even a death? Also on the 1881 Welsh Census, there is a Henry Knight born 1877 who is down as a grandson but I can't locate him on the BMD to obtain a birth certificate. Want to know whether this was another of Sarah's children. Henry could be another name given by the grandparents. Any thoughts or ideas on how to track them down would be greatly appreciated. Elaine