Genealogy Chat

Hi folks a little help please. I have one marriage registered twice, presumably by different people. Can I expect the same info on both and just order either, or should I order both. I am having trouble with this family, and have hit so many brick walls I often wonder if someone has told pork pies many years ago and perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree. The name is Barnard Rump and Amelia Charlotte Smith married 1839 registered in the March and June Qtrs in Swaffham Your invaluable thoughts on this please. Maria

I think a marriage is registered 'at the time' ie when you sign the register - cant imagine why it was done twice. Very odd, it does look like the same marriage i'd agree jess

Yes Jess, I thought it looked odd too and wondered if perhaps a relative other than bride or groom registered the marriage too, perhaps thinking some info might not have been given correctly, which might explain it being registered in two quarters Maria

my gt gt grandfathers was registered twice once with a D at end of name once with a T . maybe registrar thought he had got it wrong and reentered it.

This one is bit strange, I agree. I do have a case with one set of grt grt grandparents who somehow ended up being entered separately into different quarters - but in this case of yours it is both of them being entered into two different quarters. Why not give the GRO a call and see if they can enlighten you. They are able to view the images on their screens and can tell you if both certs are the same (at least they have helped me with queries in the past by checking the cert details). It's worth a try rather than paying for both.

Hey thanks to those wonderful collective minds. I will email GRO with the query, ( call from New Zealand bit difficult with time diff). Also thanks for not calling me paranoid and thinking it also a little strange. Cheers Maria

Marriages are registered at the time they take place - the filling in of the register IS the registration. If it seems to be the same wedding, perhaps the original cert was corrected in some way. I would suggest contacting either the GRO or the relevant local register office to ask their advice. nell

Since Mar and Jun are consecutive quarters, perhaps there was some confusion when the copy cert was sent to the GRO. It might just be that it appears in the index twice although its the same event?

There are two entries for a marriage in my family, one in the June quarter and one in the September quarter. The marriage was on the 1st of July so I'd guess that it happens when the marriage date is around the beginning or end of a quarter. The same details should be on either of them. Heather

Heather, thats quite on the cards i agree. I have emailed GRO for input on the matter and see where that leads. cheers Maria

I do however have to wonder how the register books work, as the March registration is in Vol 13 page 459 and the JUne registration is in the same Vol 13 but page 391. Seems backwards to me!! Maria

Maria ! just checked mine and the June entry is 6d 424 and the one in September is 6d 403.....perhaps they start again at the beginning of each quarter? Heather

Marriages should appear in the register in the same quarter they occured,the reason that the page numbers quoted above are quite high for an 'early' (in the quarter) marriage is that they are alphabetical. If Mr Anderson married at the end of the quarter,and Mr Walker at the beginning,Mr Anderson will still be down on a low numbered page and Mr Walker on a high numbered one. Glen

Hi Glen, Good point, but does each registration district get a set amount of pages as I have a page of the 'R' index and the only thing that seems to dictate page number is the district. Which then does not seem to explain my original question. Maria

Another possibility is that the marriage took place in a church or chapel which required the presence of the registrar and so there were actually two returns for the same ceremony. If the marriage was near the end of the quarter, one set of returns could have been recorded in one quarter and the other in the next. Jay

I expect the marriage took place on the cusp of the two quarters (is that the right word? it sounds clever!!!) as someone else has already said. If the registrar got his tinsel knickers in a twist he might easily rule off his books on the wrong day (probably after 1st July for the end of Q2, by mistake, and then went back to the 1st July when doing Q3) and end up with the same marriage appearing in both quarters. If that's the case, you would expect to find the Q2 entry being a higher page number, because the entry would be one of the last ones, and the Q3 entry a lower page number, because the entry would be one of the first. You might find more duplicated entries. However, each registration district will only have a few pages allocated, so to see what constitutes a high or low number you would need to look at all the marriages for that district in the Q and see what page numbers come up. Merry

Glen, sorry but I don't think that alphabetical thing is true. Just for example, here are the marriages for Swaffham for Mar 1840 (just the men, as I presume you are saying they are in alphabetical order of groom's surname?) by the way, I know this is not the year we are talking about but it is just an example. BARTRUM William Swaffham 13 469 BURROWS William Swaffham 13 477 COCKERILL Robert Swaffham 13 473 COOK Henry Swaffham 13 485 COZENS William Swaffham 13 483 DREW George Swaffham 13 487 FLATMAN William Swaffron 10 473 HALL Stephen Swaffham 13 487 HAZEL James Swaffham 13 466A HIGH James Swaffham 13 475 HUDSON John Swaffham 13 471 JARROD James Swaffham 13 479 JARROD John Swaffham 13 467 KIDALL Robert Swaffham 13 488 LEACH Frederick Robert Swaffham 13 487 LIFT James Swaffham 13 475 OXBURY Charles Swaffham 13 477 Pewley Benjamin Swaffham 13 489 ROBINSON William Swaffham 13 481 SHIP Jeremiah Swaffham 13 485 SMITH Matthew Vane Swaffham 13 488 Soanes John Swaffham 13 488 Stevens James Swaffham 13 471 WALE James Swaffham 13 488 WARD John Swaffham 13 465 As you can see, the page numbers do not work in alphabetical order of surname. As for why a page number from the June quarter is lower than a page number from the March quarter, it is just because they started new books each quarter which started from page number 1 all over again. Each district would have a range of page numbers which might be similar from quarter to quarter, but not exactly the same, because the districts would usually appear in the same order in the 'volume' for that area each quarter. Hope that makes some kind of sense! Kate.

As for the original question, it could be some kind of mixup at the GRO, or it could be that they really did get married twice, for some reason or other. If you get both marriage certs then you would find out if it is the same date on both. (You could try contacting Swaffham register office and perhaps they will have a look for you, but they might need the name of the church or place where the marriage(s) took place so they might not be able to help.) Kate.

I didn't mention that the marriage entries are not all sent to the GRO by the Registrar. If the marriage took place in the C of E then the vicar will have made his return - they are even less reliable (in general!) than the registrars! Where you fall in the alphabet has nothing to do with anything, but the date of the event will have a bearing on the page number (but only in relation to the venue) Merry

Hi All, I just got home from work and settled with a coffee and gee what a response to my question. I think I finally have the page thing sort of figured out, in my own head at least. And as for the 2 certs well maybe we will never know, I will just have to wait and see if GRO reply to my email or if I end up getting both certs I will then truly know one way or the other. Maybe its the Scrooge comming out in me ( some recessive Scots gene, no disrespect intended) that makes me not want to pay for two if I don't have to. Thanks to all for your input, at least you guys are on the same wavelength as me. My family can't understand why I keep looking for dead people. Ha Ha Happy searching folks Maria