Genealogy Chat

Hello all. Thanks for all the help and advice - I think the marriage certificate/baptism record is best route to follow now. Looks like I'm gonna be busy for a while :) Sarah

Just as a thought re marriage cert My granny married twice,her first marriage cert does not state a father,and no birth reg can be found for her under the name she married under,but her 2nd marriage (some 15 years later) does have a fathers name and occ listed. There are two possible birth refs for that name,the rumour is her father did a runner when she was just days old and her mother refused to acknowledge his existence for many years. Glen

hiya, i had a thought, was your gt grandad baptised??, perhaps he was and maybe dads name is on parish record?? you would need to goto/email relevent local studies library to where he was born, maybe you'll get lucky there, likewise with the marriage cert, his to your gt gran, maybe a name on that, have you found marriage entry for cert? do you know what yr they married? Julie

1891 here she is reg Name: Alice Kemp Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where Born: Tinhurst, Sussex, England Civil parish: Great Crosby Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas Town: Great Crosby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: West Derby Sub registration district: Crosby ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth A E Crombie 34 Emma R Crombie 60 Emma R S Crombie 32 James E D Crombie 35 Alice Kemp 23 am feeding baby atm julie

Perhaps getting Charles and Dorothy's marriage certificate could either totally rule out or rule in a father?

The only certificate I have is for birth of Charles Ellick, where his father isn't named. I only got it today, until now I thought father was just elsewhere when 1901 census taken. Also - gran recalls going to stay with relatives in Yorkshire when she was little and Charles Ellick married Dorothy Cooper in Halifax though both originally came from Liverpool and (as far as I know) lived in Liverpool.

addendum: Alice could have been born in 1868 - the sewing is v faded.

Ok.... Kemp's definitely in there! Do you have any idea where the name Ellick came from? Maybe she married later to someone called Ellick?

Sure can. The list on the sewing is: Alice Kemp 1864 Charles Kemp 1858 Emily Kemp 1859 John Kemp 1834 John Kemp 1861 Martha Kemp 1851 Naomi Kemp 1826 Tryphena Kemp 1865 William Kemp 1857 As far as I know its been handed down through the generations, so I've never doubted that it was my gg gran's

Cannot find your Alice,in 1891, with the details you have provided 1871 England Census Record about Alice Kemp Name: Alice Kemp Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 Relation: Daughter Father's name: John Mother's name: Naomi Gender: Female Where born: Ticehurst, Sussex, England Civil Parish: Ticehurst County/Island: Sussex Country: England Registration district: Ticehurst Sub-registration district: Ticehurst ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 42 Household Members: Name Age Alice Kemp 3 Charles Kemp 13 Emily Kemp 12 John Kemp 37 John Kemp 10 Naomi Kemp 45 Tryphena Kemp 6 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1046; Folio: 73; Page: 8; GSU roll: 827483.

The name of the place she was born changed a lot didn't it?! Reg...can I ask, how do we know the Alice Kemp John and the Alice Ellick is the same? Plus, Ellick was her maiden name, wouldn't she have been called that earlier? Or do you have some explanation from thh census? (only curious, I like to learn!)

please bear with me baby just woke up, btw do you have any birth/marriage certs?? death?? Julie

1901................ Alice Ellick abt 1868 Lrihurst, Sussex, England Head Wavertree Lancashire Charles Ellick Alice abt 1896 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Son Wavertree Lancashire 1891................ Alice Kemp abt 1868 Tinhurst, Sussex, England Servant Great Crosby Lancashire 1881............. Alice Kemp John, Noami abt 1868 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Daughter Ticehurst Sussex 1871............ Alice Kemp John, Naomi abt 1868 Ticehurst, Sussex, England Daughter Ticehurst Sussex Reg

hiya sarah, you mentioned the sewing could you put all details on this post please, family names DOB etc.. we'll see what we can do Julie

If anyone can help, it would be great. Here's what I know, going from gran backwards: Audrey Ellick b.21/08/1932, Liverpool parents: Charles Ellick / Dorothy Cooper Charles Ellick b.20/11/1895, Liverpool parents: Alice Ellick (listed as married in 1901 census) / father unknown. Alice Ellick b.1864, Ticehurst assuming Alice Ellick is Alice Kemp: Alice Kemp b.1864, Ticehurst parents: John Kemp /Naomi Hawkins

Julie/Sarah, I agree completely. I'm not sure where the name Kemp is from, but this person was BORN to the Ellick family....then continued being an Ellick. We'll try to help! Mandy

hiya, from what you have discribed it would seem that alice wasnt married, ellick appears to be her maiden name, i assume charles is grandad?? surely the better way to go about finding him would be to work backwards with what you know, rather than to try and peice together what 'seems' to fit, if you see what i mean, if you would like us to try and help, please post all details you know and we will see if we can find anything you may have missed, please dont think i'm trying to be a smart alick, just that sometimes people cant see the wood for the trees, HTH Julie

I'm almost certain its the same person. I've been told by my gran that her parents were Charles Ellick and Dorothy Cooper - and quite bizarrely she has a piece of sewing done by Alice 'Ellick' when she was 10, listing all of her immediate relatives' names (the Kemp family) and years of birth (quite handy when doing genealogy ;) ) I can also find Alice Kemp b.1864 in Ticehurst, Sussex on every census until the 1901 - when I find Alice Ellick b.1864 in Ticehurst.

Can I just ask.... Do you definitely know that Alice Kemp and Alice Ellick is the same person? (how do you know it's the same person?) Do you have any idea what this man's christian name was?

Can anyone offer advice on how to work out this muddle: According to census returns/BMDs etc. I have an Alice Kemp born 1864 Ticehurst working in Crosby (1891 census) then found her in 1901 census, living in Liverpool -surname Ellick, listed as married but 'head', with son Charles Ellick, b.1895. No father on census. Bought a copy of his birth certificate and father isn't named - mother is named as Alice Ellick (no maiden name given). Also, can't find any record of marriage between Kemp/Ellick. Any suggestions on where else I could look or is this gonna have to stay a mystery?