Genealogy Chat

Martha Jane Law married James Henry Heys in 1903 at All Hallows, Bispham (nr Blackpool Lancs). This is of course right slap bang in the middle of the 'black hole' that exists between the 1901 census and the start of the powers that be registering births under both parents names instead of just the father's, in 1912. I guess I'm now pretty stuck then?!!!

Not at all! If you order their marriage certificate it will give you a rough idea of their ages and who their fathers were which will help you find them on the 1901 census! At the cost of £7 you can take the next step. A brick wall is where you just cannot seem to get any further back, like no trace of birth or marriage certs - or before 1837 if you cant find any parish records to be able to get further back etc. So, I wouldn't really call that a brick wall as there is a simple way to find out more information - just order the marriage certificate! Of course if you want to find children of that marriage then yes it can be difficult, but if you search under their surname and note down all possiblities of births in that district - you can always contact the local record office that covers that area and ask them to look at each to see which ones are children of that particular couple. Alex

No that's not a brick wall, just a little step. Are you trying to work back from them or forwards in time? Gwyn

You don't make it very clear if you are trying to go backwards or forwards ? But definatley not what I would call a brickwall - the information you need is there and available it just might take a bit of time ( and money ) to find it. I wish my brickwall was as straight forward :) Esta

Sorry, I should have made it more clear that I'm looking for their children rather than their forebears. If I note all the births in the district and contact the registrar - surely they won't be able to help as the mother's maiden name isn't recorded until 1912. Is that not right?

Shareen The certificate will show the mother's maiden. You could use her maiden name as a checking point. If you order from the GRO online you will only have paid £3 and the balance of the £7 will be refunded if it is wrong one. (£4) The local ROs, I think, are kinder.....If you send a cheque for £7 specifically for a birth giving the maiden name and it's the wrong one they tend to send the cheque back. Has worked for me in the past :) Good luck Chris

Maiden names are there on the birth certificates . I have them from 1837 . Eve

Shareen Its just the registers that dont show the mothers maiden name, but the local records offices have books with copies of the certificates in, if you supply them with the year and the quarter and the childs name (GRO refs are useless to Local Records offices) and tell them the names of the parents, they will look through their books and check each record and they can supply you with a copy of the certificate of each child that fits. You can call them up and ask them to let you know how many they find and then send them a cheque to cover the amount of however many certificates they find. Or you can go to the Local Records office yourself and take a look. If you were to go to the GRO it will cost you money for them to search for you - as they will check each image from their fiche. Most local records offices are really nice and helpful about searching for you. You can write to them and give them a phone number to call you so they can let you know how many 'hits' they find and then you can arrange about payment for the certs. Alex

Chris - I thought that they didn't start recording the mother's maiden name until after 1912? Certianly when I use Free BMD on ancestry, you can only use the mother's maiden name for reference after 1912. I have already searched after 1912 for Heys births with Law as the mother's maiden name but have found none, and am therefore assuming since this couple married in 1903 that their children will have been born in that black hole period before 1912. My grandad tells me that Martha/James did procreate, but I have no other info about their descendants. NOW does it look like a brick wall?!!! (Thanks for all your help too).

Alex that's really useful, thanks very much for this. Chris - I guess this is what you meant also? Thanks a lot for your help. Brickwall surmounted!

Thanks Eve. : )

Assuming the didn't move from Bispham, there are only two births with the surname Heys showing on Free BMD, so it must be worth checking them Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Dec 1905 Heys Leonard Fylde 8e 567 Births Sep 1907 HEYS Robert Fylde 8e 63

Shareen Yes Alex has put into greater, and clearer, detail what I was trying to say! LOL Chris

First step is the marriage certificate. You may already know in this particular case, that Martha's maiden name was LAW. If she was widow LAW, when she married James, then LAW would not be shown against the HEYS children's birth entries on GRO, after 1911, but her maiden name would be shown. Gwyn

i think i may have hit a brick wall unless i am not doin things right. i have found my grand mothers mum and dad but want to search for great grandmothers relations. can anyone help me in trying to find out how d i find my great grand mothers maiden name?

Yes thats right, if she was widowed at the time of her marriage then there would be a different maiden name down for births, but as you said you knew about the family before the marriage - I am guessing that you would also know if she had been previously married. The registers only started putting maiden names down from the September quarter of 1911. For marriages - names of spouses were given from 1912. But the GRO (i think its them) that are in the process of transcribing all the certs details from 1837 - so that perhaps in about a year or so there will be a database much like freebmd where all births will show mothers maiden names and all marriages will show spouses. So I look forward to that with baited breath! Alex

Janine If you post what details you already know, perhaps we can help point you in the right direction. For instance if you know when she was born - you can look for her birth certificate which will give her mothers maiden name - or if she was born after Sep Q 1911 her mothers maiden name will be on the register. But if you post what you know I'm sure I can see what I can do to help out. Alex

Mothers maiden name has always been recorded on the certificate, it is just that is wasn't indexed in the register until 1911. Janine, Post a thread with the details that you have already, names dates places etc and someone will have a look for you and advise the best way forward.