Genealogy Chat

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Hi I believe I have a dead relative (well, not one of mine but one I am researching) listed as: Sidwell Louie 0 Coventry 6d 361 There is also another Sidwell child listed for Coventry but on a different page: Sidwell William 0 Coventry 6d 365 My thinking is that they _may_ have been brothers (I'm assuming there is no way to tell unless I get their death certs) but can anyone tell me what the page numers mean. Can I assume that they didn't die at the same time during the quarter? Thanks in advance Charney

sorry, should have said, the year was 1898!

Each page has a fixed number of entries.......when the page is full, a new one is started. So the death recorded on page 365 would probably have been at a somewhat later date than the one on page 361. This is possibly William's birth......... Name: William Sidwell Year of Registration: 1898 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Coventry County: Warwickshire, West Midlands Volume: 6d Page: 594 This is Louie's.......a different, though consecutive, page number Name: Louie Sidwell Year of Registration: 1898 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Coventry County: Warwickshire, West Midlands Volume: 6d Page: 595 Either pair of certs would confirm if they were siblings (or not) Reg

Thanks Reg. I just wanted to double check before I fork out for unnecessary certificates! I will order them and ask them to check against the parents names. 3 pounds isn't too much to loose for that information, although as you say their births are listed on different pages which makes me think that they could not be brothers! Thanks again Jo

Unfortunate to have two siblings so young die so quickly. Do you by any chance have access to the parish records? If so you may be able to confirm from them if they were indeed siblings. Also you may find their burials. Keith

There are 145 Sidwell names in Coventry in 1891 census, so although they are probably related way back, it doesn't mean the two deaths you found are related. I believe the way the index works - though I don't know - is that its related to the alphabetical list of surnames. I've found that ancestors whose surnames begin near the beginning of the alphabet are on lower numbers and those nearer Z are much bigger page numbers.

No it doesn't work alphabetically - just take a look at any of the marriages, for example, in your tree and then check the spouse - as you do on FreeBMD and you will see a variety of names all with the same reference. Parish registers for baptisms/christenings are simple one liners, for example ---------------------------------- Page 204 ---------------------------------- 1831 1 Oct Charles son of William and Mary TATE (born 28 Sept) Louisa daughter of Henry and Rachel JONES Samuel son of Richard and Sarah BATES and so on ................. In most cases the book is then turned upside down and starting on the last page (which becomes first) are the burials : ----------------------------------- Page 142 ------------------------------------- 30 Sep James GRANT Sybil SMITH Henry LONGWOOD Mary STYLES sometimes the clerk may write in the cause of death, or for a baby the mothers name or sometimes the address but not much is given. The page numbers will be continued from th previous book. To check out got to FreeBMD select Births No name select Coventry then select dates say 1896-1900 and insert the Vol and page number 6d 595 Then SEARCH and you will see all the births on that page for the dates given

As the two births are on consecutive pages there is the chance that they were twins and one is recorded on the last space on one page and the other is recorded at the top of the next page. Alternatively they could be cousins, or no relation at all (depending how common the name is in the area). Kath. x

If I was researching this I would apply to the Coventry Registrar enclosing a covering letter to explain..... Include an application for both children stating their parents names and TWO cheques for £7 each. Plus a SAE You should then receive the correct cert/s........either one, both or NONE which ever is applicable...and any cheque/s not required Gill

As far as the births are concerned, I'd have a look on FreeBMD for the refs and then have a look at the original documents (click the spectacles at the side of the entry). At least then you'd know if they do run consecutively or not. Regards Looby PS- sorry Jo, having a 'blonde' moment, of course that won't tell you what you want, but if you're anywhere near GRO or Kew then you could have a look.

The 'original document' viewed via the spectacles on Freebmd is only an image of the index not of the register pages so will confirm if the transcribed page numbers really are 594 and 595 but won't tell you the position of the registrations on those pages, ie wont tell you if they were consecutive. The advice to contact the coventry registrar is good. Another wheeze, rather than sending separate cheques, is to send one but leave the amount blank and write 'not exceeding £14' along the top of the cheque, the registrar can then take £7, £14 or return the cheque as needed.

Its possible they may have been brothers - just because the page number is not the next page along but a few pages - it could be they both died in infancy but just not on the same day. So poor Louie dies and his parents register his death. Then a few days later or so the other brother dies and they have to go back and register his death too. I agree that the best way to do it is via the local records office with reference checking points, that way if he isn't a child of the same parents, they wont issue the cert or charge you.

Joe in Bexleyheath, I'm not sure why you bring in baptisms and burials? True, some of the GRO marriage registers are copies of the church registers (but of course, there are also register office weddings included), but the GRO birth and death registers are nothing to do with parish registers at all. Kate.

Thanks all. It's part of a bigger mystery and one that is going to cost me money however I do it! I would be interested in hearing what do you all think ... My partner's grandmother was Joan Amelia Sidwell b. Aston (nr Birmingham) in 1920. I have her birth cert. Her (known) siblings dates of birth were from 1910 and we knew (from family stories) that her parents were George Sidwell and Marie Standfold. I found a marriage ref for West Browmich in 1897 for a George Sidwell and Marie Louise Stanford. I thought this was too early but I can't find any others that match. However, this means that the were married for 13 years before the birth of their first known surviving child. It also seems strange to me that all their earlier choildren died, not a selection - perhaps the later lot were a hardier bunch! It doesn't seem to ring true but I can't find an alternative. I have looked at the 1901 census and found that George and Marie Louise living in Aston - they are listed as having 3 children - Louis who has been crossed out with no age (I assumed that meant he had died and someone got confused as to the children's names - hence the Coventry connection which hasn't appeared anywhere else yet!), Gladys 3 months (her death is listed in Dec 1906 as a 5 year old) and Stanley 3 years old. However, I can't find a death for him! So, do you think the George and Marie that got married in 1897 are 'mine'? Where would you all go next? I'm struggling a bit with this one! Thanks again!

Charney Jo Start with you and work back to the place where you are stuck, using certs and censuses to help you. Standfold isn't the same as Stanford. I think it quite unlikely that a couple would be married 13 years without any children that survived, though its possible. I have a gap in my family with no apparent children - but the father was a fisherman and I think was away for a long period of time.

Hi Helen Sorry, I should have said. I did get a copy of the birth cert for Amelia Joan - the mother of my partner's mother. We know about her for sure but I couldn't get a copy of the cert. I therefore decided the 7 pounds (sorry, foreign keyboard with no pound sign!) was worth it for just that reason. It did give the parents names as Marie Stanford (I guess it could be misread as Stanfold!) and George Sidwell. It seems right - but the gap makes it seem so wrong. Perhaps I should be searching prison records to see if he 'was away' for a long time in the interim!!! What do you think? Sorry, your opinions are very much appreciated! Jo

Did you see the Robert Lindsay episode of 'Who Do You Think You Are?' the other week? He found out that his grandmother had had two illegitimate children before her marriage (only one of them was mentioned in the programme, but it said on the BBC website, I think it was, that there were two) and also that his grandparents had had two children who died very young, and his mother had never told him about any of these! His aunts told him about all this for the first time on the programme! So it is certainly possible that there were other siblings that your partner never heard about. Sorry, got to go to bed now! I'll have another think in the morning... Kate.