Genealogy Chat

Hi Gill Thank you for your reply. Been away over the week-end, hence the late reply. Astrid

Thank you all for your interest. I spoke to my mother today and she told me that the family 'saga' is that Jane and William meet while working for the same employer. He was to have been the servant who helped to dress? his master. As I do not live in an english speaking country, I do not know what one would call him. I have a feeling my mother or grandmother may have got the 'Nice' bit wrong. I will try to find one of them in the 1881 census. Astrid

Being a bit facetious but have you checked if there was maybe a pub/hotel called the Duchess of Nice? Cliff

Could be the family story has become changed over the years, chinese whispers style, and she was actually a lady's maid to a duchess in Nice?

Thank you. I will copy this to word for future reference. Astrid

I've checked carefully and Nice has never been a duchy, so it wouldn't have had a duke or duchess. However, the following might be of help. On the assumption that your family history had been passed down orally rather than in writing, I was looking for a word that sounded like Nice: Knyaz Kniaz’ or knyaz is a word found in some Slavic languages. It is usually translated into English as either Prince or Duke, although the correspondence is not exact. The etymology is directly related to the English King, the German König, and the Scandinavian konung. It was probably borrowed early from the Proto-Germanic *Kuningaz, a form also borrowed by Finnish and Estonian (Kuningas). The title is pronounced and written similarly in different Eastern European languages: Bulgarian: (knyaz), in fem. (knyaginya) Croatian: knez Czech: knez, in fem. (= priest(ess)); kníže, (=princ(ess)) Hungarian as (so like kenéz) Polish: knia Romanian: cneaz, chinez Russian: (knyaz'), in fem. (kniaginia) Serbian: (knez), fem. (kneginja), (knjaz), fem.(knjeginja) Sorbian: knjez Slovak:(= priest(ess); knieža, in fem.(=princ(ess)) Slovenian: knez, in fem. kneginja Ukrainian: (knyaz'), in fem. (kniahynia) Montenegrin : knjaz, in fem. knjaginja In West Slavic languages, such as Polish and Sorbian, the word has later come to denote 'lord', and in Czech, Polish and Slovak also came to mean 'priest' as well as 'duke' (kníže, knieža).

Thank you Georgina and J i S I will keep on searching and asking in the fam. someone may come up with new information. regards Astrid

1871 for ref (parents & some siblings) RG10; Piece: 3793; Folio: 39; Page: 4; Living 16 Brindley St, Toxteth Anne Andrews 18 Ellen Andrews 20 James Andrews 14 John Andrews 16 Mary Andrews 55 [not 35 as transcribed by ancestry] now a widow Patrick Andrews 26

Astrid if she was a lady in waiting for the Duchess of Nice she could have been in france for the 1871 & 1881 census's. Sorry not much help. Georgina.

Hi GB Good morning. Yes, thats them. Thank you for taking time too look them up. Regard Astrid

1861 possible Name: John Andrews Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Mayo, Ireland Civil Parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: 25d Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 228 Household Members: Name Age Ann Andrews 8 Edward Andrews 20 Ellen Andrews 10 James Andrews 3 Jane Andrews 13 John Andrews 45 John Andrews 5 Mary Andrews 40 born Mayo Mary Andrews 24 Patrick Andrews 18 William Andrews 22 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2679; Folio: 79; Page: 46; GSU roll: 543011 43 New Bird St John, William, Edward and Patrick are listed as joiners Jane and the younger children born in Liverpool - rest of the family Ireland

Sorry, didn't see that you asked for parents names. Father: John born 1816, Mayo, Ireland - joiner Mother: Mary born 1821 Mayo, Ireland lots of other siblings: Mary, William, Edward, Patrick Ellen, Ann, John, James, In 1861 (I think) they lived in: New Bird St., Liverpool (Toxteth) Astrid

Astrid, have you got either of them in 1881? Have just had a quick look and can't immediately spot either of them. Jay

She was getting on a bit when she married - was it a first marriage? Might she have been a ladies maid, rather than a lady in waiting? Harrogate was rather select, due to it being a spa town and people going there to take the waters. Jay

Astrid - I asked for parents names in case she could be found on 1871 or 1881 as you hadn't said you had her on those. Liverpool to Harrogate is quite a move (in terms of the people she would have been associating with) so just wondered if 71 & 81 gave any clues

Hi, Thank you. That is the couple. (ladies are allowed to lie about their age - ?) Getting a lot of info, but not what I was asking about. I have Dickens works, they belonged to aunt Jane, also a few ofther bits and pieces, that is why I am quite interested in what she did, and what happened to her. Astrid

Astrid - 1891 (Jane's ageing very gracefully - reckons she was born 1853 !!) RG12; Piece: 3521; Folio 9; Page 10 Living Devonshire Hotel, Devonshire Place, Harrogate Mary Cawood 25 single domestic servant born Darlington, Co. Durham Jane Frances Houlton 38 wife born Liverpool William Samuel Houlton 31 head hotel proprietor born Carlton, Notts She's not jumping out at me on 51 or 61 - what were her parents called?

Georgina, Thank you. I have got him down as: died 2. Jan. 1893 in Harrogate. Astrid

Astrid William died in Yorkshire.. Deaths Mar 1893 HOULTON William Samuel 32 Knaresborough 9a 81 Georgina.

Sorry, but I have not found them in the 1891 census it. Still looking. Astrid