Genealogy Chat

Can anyone direct me as to what is happening for the new plans for the BMD indexes... something to the extent of putting mothers maiden name on all birth index and so forth.... There was a thread about this on the boards Steve

As far as I know, this is part of the government's DOVE project, due to come on line in 2008. Google DOVE project, for more information. OC

Hmmm, thanks for that... nothing is coming up though Steve

Family Records Centre (FRC) - Wednesday 19 October 2005 DOVE (Digitisation of Vital Events) Project The Chair gave a presentation on the background, structure and redesign process of the project. Siemens Business Services had been selected as the supplier and the contract had been signed on 29 July 2005. Master Nitrate films will be used as the source data. Images are to be scanned by Siemens at their Beeston establishment where they will be de-speckled and de-skewed and any 'noise' removed. The images will then be sent to Chennai (India) via a secure link - the data will also be encrypted.A data protection officer will also be sent to India to oversee the procedures. At first capture the Indian staff will be asked to key at 12000 strokes per hour - any problematic entries will be sent to first line repair. If the problem is unable to be resolved at the first line repair in Chennai the record will be passed to the second line repair in the UK. The second line repair will be a Siemens team working alongside the ONS third line repair team who will deal with any unresolved records. Siemens will check a sample of each batch using the recommended batch sizes as set out in ISO 2859. ONS staff will then check a different random sample using the same ISO standard. The checking will be based on the accuracy of the data captured, which contractually has to be 99.5%. The user acceptance team had now been recruited and was to be installed in newly refurbished accommodation by 24 October 2005. Contract Milestones * Go live on microfilm scanning: 31 October 2005 * First block delivered to ONS for QA: 19 December 2005 * 50% of historic births completed: 30 April 2006 * Balance of historic births completed: 12 June 2006 * Historic deaths completed: 31 October 2006 * Modern births completed: 31 May 2007 * Modern deaths completed: 30 September 2007 * Historic marriages completed: 31 December 2007 * Modern marriages completed: 31 May 2008 * Still birth records completed: 31 May 2008 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- UPDATE - Wednesday 19 July 2006 DoVE Project (Digitisation of Vital Events) All Birth records 1911-1934 have now been scanned by Siemens. They are in the process of scanning the remainder of the birth records classed as historic births i.e. 1837-1910 and these are at varying stages of the data capture and quality assurance process. Siemens have experienced problems with their SAN (Storage Area Network) at their Beeston scanning site. This has had an impact on the throughput of the scanned records and has caused delays that will impact on the published milestones of completed events throughout the project. Sue Brown shared with the group potential changes to milestone dates these will be published once formal agreement between ONS and Siemens has been reached. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only 1-2 years left and we should have access to the DoVE indeces to make life easier

Hi guys, So what whill this DOVE project mean? What difference will there be between current BMD records and these DOVE records? Thanks, Matt

Matt, I believe that the DOVE project will provide fully indexed BMD records with the ability to download a copy of the record. Allowing searches. Plus mother's maiden names will be added to all birth records from 1837 and not just from 1911 in the current indexes. This project digitises the complete record not just the index. The current BMD indexes, on Ancestry for example, are only indexed at the page level and not the individual record. I am sure that I will be corrected if this is not the case, but that is my understanding of the project. Paul

Thanks Paul. It sounds as though the BMD index will be much easier to search and to find the right person from now on. I have found the index to be very useful but it can be difficult to find the correct record for the person you are searching for pre 1911 (or whenever it was when they began adding mothers maiden names to the index). Cheers, Matt

When I first read about the DOVE project, I am positive that the blurb stated that it would be possible to download a copy of a historical BMD, for a price of about £3.50, and I have been eagerly awaiting this development. However, another member on here challenged me over this information and indeed, it now is looking that this will not be possible - the latest information says (of the online, digitalisation) However, this will make no difference to the current arrangements for provision and delivery of certificates. Making it seem that downloading is NOT going to be an option. I have tried to email GRO to clarify this, but unfortunately, my computer will not deliver a message (STMP error, whatever that is) so I am none the wiser. My brother confirms that he too, read or heard, that GRO certs would be downloadable, so I don't think I dreamed it up! OC

I am puzzled over the continued effort being put into FreeBMD. What is the point? They are only transcribing the existing (defective) indices, whereas the DOVE project is an entirely new index, taken, I think, from the original registers, with more information than has previously been included in the indices. Isn't FreeBMD going to be rendered redundant?

Clive, FreeBMD will still be very usefull, after all it is free. I believe there will be a charge to download records from the DOVE database. Much like Scotlands People and other systems around the world. These records by the way will not be legal certificates which is why it will not alter the process of ordering certificates from the GRO. Paul

Paul! Paul! Paul! Tell me more! Do you mean I was right - we WILL be able to download non-certificated certificates? I have really worried about this for the last few days as i KNEW I had read this somewhere - I have been patiently waiting since 2004 (original release date was 2006, but put back because of 'difficulties encountered', to 2008) OC

OC, As far as I know you will be able to download, or view, the records for a fee. After all what would be the point of it if you could not see a record on the screen and once there you can merely copy it. Similar systems are already in use in Australia, for instance for the Victorian BMD, although there it costs you $0.99 to view the index record before you pay more to view the full record on line. However as I said previously, these are merely records and not certificates. The information is the same but a digital copy of a record (or a photocopy for that matter) is not a legal document. Paul

Paul This very old woman, who has thought for the past few days she was going mad, owes you a bottle of cyber champagne! I could even remember the dates of the (historic) certs which would be available to download! Personally, I don't care a fig if they are not legal documents, I merely want a copy cert to stick in my files, as do most family historians, I suspect. A very good night to you. OC

OC, You are welcome. Paul

It will be great to be able to d/l certs and most people aren't bothered about them being legal records as they just want to be able to see it quickly to determine if it is the correct one and to have a copy to keep on file. It could cut the cost spent on certificates dramatically (hope the GRO don't go bankrupt lol). This is all well and good, but am I the only one that is miffed that the work has been farmed out to another country when so many people in this country need work (yes I include myself in that)? As to why people are continuing to transcribe for BMD? Well... really, do you want to wait up to two years for the result of this? That's a long time to wait for a search (or a lot of searching original images) plus as said, it's free. A lot is made of cleaning up the images, but some are already of very clear quality, and transcribing a page currently takes me around 40 minutes (maybe it will be less once I get used to doing it as I just started) and checking it, another 10. DoVe isn't in place yet, and I don't know whether you'll have to pay to search it etc (can't imagine it would be free), so we might as well carry on with FreeBMD until then. Liz

Liz If the transcribing were to be done in UK, then the extra costs (which would be considerable) would have to be passed on to us, the consumers. That's the sad economic reality, I'm afraid. I think that the DOVE project may well eventually make FreeBMD obsolete - as stated above, it will contain additional info that is not on the current GRO index (and therefore not on FreeBMD), and will also link to scanned images of the actual register entries. Because the DOVE index is being re-compiled from the original registers, then it will be different to the existing FreeBMD index - i.e. errors in the current index will not necessarily be repeated in the DOVE index, and no doubt new errors will be introduced in the DOVE index that are not in the current index! So FreeBMD will be a useful cross-check in the latter case. And, of course - the 2008 timeline might well get pushed out - 2010 or beyond... so still a few more years of use from FreeBMD at least! And depending on how they structure the search fees on DOVE, it might be possible to use FreeBMD to narrow down your search to a list of possibles, and therefore spend less in search fees on DOVE. So FreeBMD will still have its uses! Richard

Have to admit, I reckon they'd get people transcribing for free even, like they do on FreeBMD lol. I know that I would happily do it. I think it would be a bad move to abandon FreeBMD, at least until we see what happens when DoVe is up and running. As you said, it will have it's uses for a while yet. Liz

Liz I am sure that lots of people would volunteer to do it for free - but it is a Government project, and really has to be done 'properly' to justify spending public money on it. There would still be tremendous costs involved, even if all the transcribing were done free - the registers would have to be photocopied anyway, the volunteers would have to be marshalled, etc etc. The logistics of organising such a huge project are mind boggling. And on a previous poster's point - no, I don't think the GRO will lose any money from revenue. What they will do, probably, is reduce their staff by natural wastage, once the system is up and running, thus saving considerable overheads. I think the current interest in family history has overstretched a service which was, let's face it, set up to provide the odd lost birth cert here and there, not thousands of applications per month for historic certificates. I know that archivists have a worry that the continual overhandling of very old registers is not good for them! So once the records are digitalised and available on line, there should be hardly ever any need to handle the register again. Can't wait! OC