Genealogy Chat

One of my GGFs was born to English parents in Kildare c1844, while my 2GGF was serving as an army farrier with the 4th Dragoon Guards. The parents were not catholic, and I suppose it is quite likely that the christening was performed by an army chaplain. Could anyone suggest how I might go about tracing any available records? I would be interested in anything I might be able to find about my 2GGF's military service, as well as the son's birth.

Is there not a thing on 1837 online to search for births abroad whilst in military and the likes?? You'll have to pay per view but other than that, I don't know how to do it.

That's the site that turned into Findmypast, isn't it? They do seem to have something called GRO Regimental Birth Indices. Does anyone have any experience of them: coverage etc. I am a little wary of pay-per-view sites, but I guess I can afford £5 to find out.

I have a yearly sub. will look for you. Just going back to get names etc from first message. Jennifer update may need some names etc!

That would be very kind. The father was Thomas Mitchell, a farrier, and the mother Ann Randleson. Based on later census data, the son Thomas would have been born c1844, Kildare. He had an older sister, Mary Ann, c1842 Dundalk, Co Louth, born in similar circumstances (I assume).

I have looked at findmypast records and can't find anything for the names - so sorry Jennifer Also tried marriages but they only seem to start at 1881.

Thank you very much for looking. I wonder whether Church of Ireland parish records will be the excuse for a long weekend in Dublin!

Clive, The Army baps and mrriages in Ireland are contained in a special book within the Index to Regimental Registers at the FRC in London. I understand that these have been put online through Find My Past Overseas BM. I have not done this research through FMP, but I have found Army Marriage of 1865 and Bap of 1866 in the books themselves at FRC. Once you find the reference, you then write in the normal way for the certs. If you are absolutely sure that your ancestor married within the army in Ireland then I am surprised that they are not on FMP. May be worth paying the credits to check yourself. These Regimental Registers go back to the 1700's so I cannot understand why Jennifer is saying that she can only find them from the 1880's? I assume she did look in the Overseas Section? In my case the bride was catholic and the groom was protestant and they married in the protestant church at Fermoy under the jurisdiction of the army. Fermoy was one of the the main garrison towns in County Cork. The Witnesses were army people and the cert gave his regiment and rank. The baps were the same. All this info enabled me to find his records at Kew. And I did not go to irekland for this info. Hope this is of some help. Incidentally my Bap was from Kildare and Fermoy is not far! Janet

Janet, thanks for the further information. To expand, a little: the parents didn't marry in Ireland, but at St Cuthbert's, Carlisle, Ann's home parish in 1841. Just a few month's later, they appear (separately) in 1841 Scottish census. He is at Piershill Barracks, Leith, and she at at Jock's Lodge (more or less next door). Judging by the historical information gleaned from a website devoted to the regiment's history, he would have been posted to Ireland before 1841 was out, and it was there, between 1842 and 1844 that two of their children were born. I don't really know what the form would have been for the baptism of the children of the non-officer classes. I'm not even sure that the father was a serving soldier, as such. Perhaps the farriers were not reckoned as soldiers at all, but were retained/employed by the army to look after the horses. They were definitely not catholics, though, so the children wouldn't have been baptised in the local parish church, but would either have been christened by a protestant minister of some sort, or by an Army chaplain. I'm quite happy to punt the £5 myself to double-check the material held on findmypast, but if someone has searched today for the names, and found nothing, I have no reason to suppose that my credits are going to produce any different result. Does anyone have any experience of this sort of circumstance, and have any suggestion as to an alternate strategy?

Clive I have in front of me the baptism cert of my ancestor bap 1866 Curragh Camp, County Kildare. To be quite honest I do not know from this whether or not she was bap as an RC or Cof E though suspect Cof E as it gives the name of the Chaplain and no mention of RC. It states that it is a certified copy of an entry in the Army Register Book of Births Baptisms and Marriages. The father is a Lance Sergeant in the 33rd Regt and the cert is signed by his captain. All army Baps are contained within this book. If not bap whilst in the army then you will need to search out through ordinary irish births through Dublin Library as it is pre 1864. In this case you will need to know the Townland. However if couple are English and in Ireland in the 1840's with famine all around them I would wonder what he was doing there as people were trying to get out of Ireland in the 1840's not trying to get in. As you say maybe as a Farrier he was not treated as an army person. Have you asked at a local Army Museum how a Farrier might be treated if in the army? I always thought they were a very important part of the army. Looking after the horses would surely be the eqivalent of making sure the tanks were running efficiently these days. You know he was in the Dragoon Guards so his records are possibly at TNA Kew although they might also be at a special Regimental Museum. Either way have you researched these records and found the Attestation Document telling you where and when he joined the army and detailing his stints of duty and his progress through the army? Whilst the regiment may have been in Ireland at that time some of the depots of the Regiment may be elsewhere, so this sort of work is best done through the Muster Records. When I was researching the Muster records at Kew for my ancestor the 33rd regt was split into depots and one depot was in India whilst another was in Ireland and yet another was in Mauritius and I had to search each muster record very carefully to make sure I had the correct depot for where my ancestor was. This is much easier to do once you have the Attestation Papers and you can see clearly where they have been. Aren't there two sections of overseas births on FMP and aren't these overseas section free to browse anyway? These Army Registers do go back to the late 1700's as I have researched from them at the FRC myself, but maybe they have not put all these records online. Alternatively maybe someone could do a search for you at FRC when they are next there. I rarely go to the FRC these days. The Bap Certs also give date of birth though not place of birth, and that needs to be treated very warily, as I had one for a bap in Portsea and assumed birth in Portsea, but army families were always on the move and she was actually born 3 weeks earlier in Sheffield! Janet

Many thank for the assistance. I took the plunge and bought some credits but there is no sign of my Thomas in the army birth records of the period. I guess civil registration was very patchy at that period, and I might stand a better chance of finding a christening record, but then so much was lost in the way of presbyterian parish records in 1922. Of course, he may never have been christened, or may have been 'done' in later life.