Genealogy Chat

Kevin, is your Grandmother listed on the GRO indices at the time of her birth? Jo

I have the original of my Gmothers BC dated 11/12/1912 the day before her 13th birthday, and on the back it states 'Not for secondary education, for employment purposes only' So it was 'down t' mill lass on yer birthday'!!!!!

Have you looked to see if any of Hugh's siblings werev registered ? Their birth cert would give the same info as Hugh's.

Thank you for your help, I am waiting for a (hopefully) relevant cert and when it comes I will look again at Hugh Chris

Christine I have been looking at birth's for Hugh and although there is nothing obvious there are a few maybe's that might be worth looking at... Births Sep 1843 (>99%) McDermett Male Liverpool 20 29_ Births Mar 1844 (>99%) MCDERMOTT Male Liverpool 20 465 Births Jun 1845 (>99%) McDermott Hugh Macclesfield 19 119 Georgina.

Georgina It is Hugh McDermott I was looking for to get back to his parents I have Hugh on 1851 census in Littles Lane Wolverhampton aged 6 born Liverpool to Francis and Bridget McDermott both born Ireland and it is their marriage and birth details I am looking for which is why I wanted his birth cert. In 1881 census Bridget stated County Mayo but no good without maiden name. Although in 1861 they say he was born in Wolverhampton I think the 1851 info is more likely to be remembered correctly as it was only six years before. Hugh's place of birth yoyo's between Lpool and W'ton through the censuses but I can't find him in either in1845/46 Thanks for your offer Chris

Christine have you found her on the censuses? Was her mother married when she came here or could she have been born in Ireland and brought here when she was a baby? If you want to post some details I will have a look. Georgina.

Hi Everyone Thanks for all the info which as usual is fascinating. Lunar and Sylvia Yes the cert I have was issued in connection with the Factory Act but it seems that both types (including Jennifer's Elementary Education Act one) have to have access to an actual birth cert. Regrettably even if copies were accessible they would not take me futher for someone apparently not registered at all. I imagine if you arrived in Liverpool in 1848 after fleeing the Irish Potato famine and then produced a child the last thing you would worry about if you knew about/ could afford (unlikely) would be registering the baby. So what happens next- Marriage cert I suppose? Thanks again Chris

I have an even earlier one than Lunar's. The ELEMENTARY EDUCATION ACT, 1876 Requisition for a certified copy of an entry of birth for the purpose of the above act, or for any purpose connected with the elementary Education or Employment in labour of a child. It is grey in colour and was issued in 1883 in respect of a boy born in 1869. Jennifer

Jo. Attending Secondary School was one reason. Getting a Job was another. Family Allowence This is what one certificate (Issued 1917 for a birth in 1903) that I inherited says: This Certificate is not available for the purpose of Secondary Education CERTIFIED COPY of the ENTRY of BIRTH. (Issued for the purposes of the Factory and Workshop Act. 1901) the boy it belonged to was just approching his 14th birthday when it was issued so he would have been expected to start work. I also have his Son's which states: THIS CERTIFICATE IS ISSUED FOR THE PURPOSES OF Employment of Young person and for NO OTHER USE OR PURPOSE WHATEVER. Issued Dec 1940, birth was July 1924 (16yrs old) And the daughters: THIS CERTIFICATE IS ISSUED FOR THE PURPOSES OF Family Allowence Act. Issued June 1947, birth was Nov 1940.

Can anyone explain when (in what circumstances) people whould have to produce their birth certificates. I'm interested in the years between 1900 and 1945. Thanks, Jo

Christine ...... the cert your mother had to have before she went to work in 1917 ....... was this a birth cert??? I have two certificates, one for Mum and one for Dad, but they were issued by the school saying that each of them had completed the requisite number of days schooling and could therefore leave school and start work. Mum's was 1915 and Dad's 1916.

Christine I suppose the Registrar would consult with the Vicar and any local busybodies, lol, and look out for a line of nice white nappies flapping in the breeze. All a bit hit and miss though. OC

Christine Registering a birth & a Baptism were completely different. Reading the info above each district had a registrar & at the end of each quarter it was his job to send all the births that had been registered in that quarter to the registrar general. You could have a child baptised without registering it's birth before 1875 but you would not get a birth certificate. Georgina.

Gerri I cant take credit for the above info, it was from google. But it does make you think how lucky we are to find so many births registered before 1875. Georgina.

Would the Registrar go to the church baptism records then? (Before 1875 I mean) . I know my mother had to have a cert before she could go to work in 1917 - do you know when this came in? Thanks

I bet thats where my elusive flippin Matilda was hiding!...under the flippin table! 2 quid? that was a fortune!...flippin even. Gerri x PS...Thanks for that info Georgina, very interesting.

I was very surprised to learn that in the early days of registration - pre-1875 - it was up to the REGISTRAR to go around the district looking for new borns to register. It therefore seems a minor miracle that anyone got registered at all! OC

Christine this might help... Birth Certificates Births weren't always registered. That only first became necessary on July 1st 1837, when it was decreed that every subsequent birth, marriage and death in England or Wales had to be registered by the state. With births, the event would be registered in the district where the child was born, and at the end of each quarter, the registrar would send a copy of all the entries to the Registrar General. That means there should be two entries - one local, one national - for every birth since 1837. However, registering all three events didn't become compulsory until 1875. When it was introduced, the cost of a copy certificate was two shillings and sixpence (30p), one shilling (5p) of which went to the registrar and the fee stayed the same until 1952. This means that tracing births back to 1875 is relatively straightforward. Between 1837-1875 it might prove a bit harder, as some didn't register, or even gave false names for a number of reasons - to hide the true age of a child so it could be sent out to work, or, after 1853, because parents wanted to avoid the compulsory vaccination of children at three months old, which was introduced that year. Until 1875 there was no penalty for parents who didn't register a birth, and then a £2 fine was introduced. Georgina.

I understand that birth registration was not mandatory til 1875. I wondered if this was retrospective, in other words if you hadn't been registered did you have to or was it just for newborns? Thanks