Genealogy Chat

Yes, I agree, certs can be just as misleading as anything else - which is why it always pays to get as much evidence as you possibly can, and not rely on just one single piece of evidence - and certainly not just one single piece of hearsay evidence! Baptism records sometimes tell a different story from the one on the birth cert - people didnt mind lying to the Registrar, but usually didnt dare lie to the Vicar.(Who probably knew the truth anyway). OC

One of my contacts is descended from a man who died while his wife was pregnant. The man's brother is registered as the child's father on the birth certificate and he subsquently married his sister-in-law having his own children by her. Certificates can mislead but fortunately the family knew who the actual father was.

Thank you all I was fast asleep by the time most of you were talking! I'm very enthusiastic as I've found what I consider to be a lot in a short time. Now it's obviously time to slow down and consider/check each step I've taken. I've sent for certs where I've reached a dead end but all your stories make me realise I'll have to double check a few people as well. Hope you won't mind if I keep asking when I'm stuck!! Thanks again

I'm only getting certificates at the moment for ones I'm having problems with, although I did splash out and purchase six out of seven birth certificates for one set of great-aunts and uncles - already had Grandma's and the daughter of the seventh is still living. Strangely enough, I am desperately waiting for a particular certificate at the moment - I've ordered it and hope it will be here tomorrow as I have a huge question mark over someone. My Dennis 3xgreat grandparents were living with a grandson George Barnett Dennis in 1871 and, given that their daughter Mary Ann went on to marry a man called George Barnett (2xgreat grandparents) later that year, I have a suspicion that George B. Dennis was Mary's. That really is an exception, though. I'm 99% sure of the identities of the married couples in my tree but when I get really stuck - say, I have a John Jones who I know married an Elizabeth but in the quarter I think they were married there are two possible Elizabeths, I would consider buying that one if it was a direct ancestor, but not if it was quite a distant one (say, three generations back, one to the side and two down again).

You need to remember too that certs are only as truthful as the person giving the information to the registrar. I have recently come across a relative whose birth certificate names a lady as his mother who was actually his grandmother who to cover up her daughters' indiscretion registered the child as her own. Caz

Barbara Do you know, I had to re read my post three times before I realised what I had said! LOL! Time for bed..... OC

OC - Did you really mean to say his niece 'was his daughter, and her mother was his sister's WIFE' ?? Knew a lot, in those days! Same-sex cloning, no less! Ho-ho! But I've recently had first-hand experience of what certs can reveal - my dad was told his mum died in the flu epidemic after WW1 - she did die in 1918, but nothing as simple as flu. Glad he didn't ever know the real details. He was only 7, no father alive, mum died, so got sent off to hard labour in 'the colonies'. Tough lives, then! I wonder what else I'll find? Bx

Wills too, can enforce or destroy a fondly held family belief. I got a Will, for £3.50, of a relative who married, but died childless. Just curiosity really, as he was reputed to be well off and I wondered who got the loot. Ha!....'and the remainder of my estate (about £41,000 in 1897) I leave to my dear niece Rachel B****' Well, that was the first I had heard of any niece and a lot of digging turned up her birth certificate - she was his daughter, and her mother was his sister's wife! OC

Back beyond 1837 you will have to be content with different sorts of records anyway. You may have to look in all sorts of unlikely places. This can be true of more recent ancestors too. If you are lucky enough to be able to get to the relevant records office then you may be able to find Baptismal, Marriage and Burial records. You can then get copies of the appropriate pages of parish registers for a small amount. It was just a few pence a copy last time I was in my County Records Office. That works out a lot cheaper than the certificates. I'm lucky that a large number of my ancestors lived in my own county so my research has cost me time rather than a fortune. Don't forget to look out for all sorts of documents. Dig out anything any old relative may have saved. My paternal grandmother left her birthday book with dates of birth for all sorts of friends and relations. She'd even added some of my mother's family after my parents married. She'd also saved all the original certificates she could, so I didn't need to buy them for a lot of people. It all adds up and fills in the gaps. Sue

I usually by certs for relatives I know are certainly mine, but you must also remember you can get a fair amount of extra information from the certs. It can be very valuable and time saving when looking for fathers, husbands, brothers,etc., as there has to be someone who notifies the registrar i.e. a relative.

Even 'recent' generations can provide a surprise. We always celebrated my grandfather's birthday on Christmas Day, year unstated but thought to be 1884, 5 or 6. When he died, my aunt-by-marriage searched his records and found his birth certificate. He had actually been born on January 9 1885. We're not sure whether he knew about this. I have found previously unknown information by getting certificates. But again ............ how many certificates do you need?? For the moment, I am sticking to getting certificates for my direct lines, and the occasional sibling who seems a puzzle.

My own experience has made me wary of taking ANYTHING for gospel, without written evidence! I am 100% sure I am the child of my parents - my BC backs me up. I am almost 100% sure that my parents were the children of my grandparents - again, certs (already in the family) back me up and I also knew my grandparents, and there is a family resemblance. I was 98% sure my grandparents were the children of my great grandparents, but certs proved, in one instance, that they were not. A family scandal, concealed. And two of my great grandmothers WERENT my great grandmothers - they were second wives. My father was never aware that both his 'grandmothers' were not in fact, his grandmothers. Best practice is to get certs for EVERYONE, but not many people can afford to do that. Next best practice is to get certs for your direct line, and you can often save money on marriage certs by getting a copy of the Church entry. Many people don't bother with deaths certs - you know they are dead. But I have bought most of them now, and most of them have provided a surprise, or at least previously unknown name, which has led me to another branch of the family. You may remember your recent relations and 'know' they were your family - but were you being told the truth? I wasn't. OC

i was told a few years ago 'that tracing your family tree takes as much time and money as you are prepared to put into it.' i wasnt sure how to take it back then but now i can see what the person meant.

Thanks Peter, I'll get where I want to eventually, I guess!

As with any hobby, you do what you want to do and don't be put off by others. There are some very respected members on the site who will always go to the end degree with their research and will never rest until they have absolute proof of every fact. Many of us aspire to those heights but know we will never achieve them. At the other end of the spectrum there are those how accept everything that comes along making no attempt to verify everything. In the middle there are those, most of us if we are honest, who want to establish reasonable proof before we accept t it. Lack of finance or time may preclude further investigation, but we also accept that we may not always be right. Good luck, and enjoy.

depends on how many ppl you got in tree that go back to when certs were issued. i for 1 have got loads. i think (even though some will disagree) its your personal choice whether to buy them or not. yes it does make facts proven but if you can get the info 1st hand from the person then what does it matter??? i'm a stay at home mum of 2 so i dont work and only get benefits so buying loads of certs is too costly.

Thanks for that. I was trying to work out how much it'll cost to get B M & D for everyone!!! I'm rationing myself & buying as a payday treat!

i am onlly buying certs for the ppl that are causing me problems at the moment. those that i knew both partners names etc and i can find i am leaving as they are for now. i will most probably buy certs for everyone that i can get them for but not at the moment.

What I'm thinkng of is- if I know my grandmothers birth details and her parents whereabouts in 1901 AND they have distinctive names etc can I take it the people I find of the same name in the same village in 1881 are them? Else how does anyone narrow down who to get certs for?

I've been reading a lot of past threads about the validity of research on the net v. certificates Someone made me think when they said even recent generations need checking by cert (i.e. known grandparents) Is it ever safe to take anything for granted?