Genealogy Chat

Well Elaine seems to have found the 1863 marriage. I think you need to buy that cert if you havent already, at least youd get one further generation back before you get the old Irish brick wall.

But surely Ireland was British until Home Rule in, um, 1927? I have been looking for a reference for something I read which said (talking of the 1800s) that the Irish came in such numbers to England because the journey was short and cheap and they could enter the country at will, being british citizens. Some then eventually made onward journeys to the New World of course. Really puzzled now! DOH! Meant to say - have you considered RIORDAN as being the more correct Irish spelling? OC

There a marriage registered 1b 679 1861 District Holborn, London, Middlesex between James Reardon and Margaret Lynch - could not find anything registered in 1863 - if this is your ancestors a copy of their marriage certificate might help identify place of birth in Ireland. Helen

I just wonder Paul - if these Irish were on their way to USA and so got recorded as onward travellers? Possible? Or perhaps you actually went to sleep and dreamt it LOL! xx Ive just been having a google and what has surprised me is that there is actually articles about English being sent to Ireland for work in the 1850s/60s - now that is a shock! I digress - nope Paul, defo no info re Irish immigrants to England. Next time ask the bloke next to you to give you a pinch when you start snoring.

Apologies to Elaine - we've hijacked your thread, sorry. Paul, you said when but you didn't say where from/to. M. Steer

No Margaret, this was 1858. As a matter of fact, the majority of these trips were cross-channel, shorter than a trip to Ireland. I don't think the length of journey was relevant. I'm trying to remember which nationalities I noticed. There were a lot of Eastern Europeans on their way to America. I wouldn't want to mislead anybody on here, so all I can say is that I definitely saw the names of Irish people listed because I noticed people who could possibly have been my own Irish relatives but needed further information.

Paul, When were your German ancestors travelling to Britain and where from/to? Could it have been 'war time'? Ireland was a neutral country during WW11. M. Steer

That would be a very useful misunderstanding indeed. Worth someone checking it out. Denis

I always understood that the Irish were British! As the boat trip from Ireland to England only took a matter of hours, I find it difficult to believe that anyone kept a list of passengers UNLESS they had booked a cabin, or had come via another, non british port. OC

As I can't check what's in the documents without going to the National Archives I'm at a bit of a disadvantage. All I can say is that when I was checking for my German ancestors I noticed many Irish people listed too. It may be that the captains believed that they had to mark them down.

Paul, all of Ireland was part of G.B. until the early 20th century. Even after that, travel between Eire and England did not require a passport or any other documentation. M. Steer

Could you explain that again, please. What foreigners are we talking about? Surely at that time someone in Ireland was no less British than someone in England, or have I misunderstood? Denis

They're not shipping records, lovely Heather, but records of aliens entering the country. I don't know if Irish were regarded as aliens then, but the ships captains certainly noted a lot of Irish people down. Was Ireland part of the UK in the 1850's? This is one set of documents that would really benefit from indexing and transcribing so I hope Ancestry or some similar organisation attend to it soon.

Hi my lovely Paul. Are you saying that IRISH shipping records are available for a brief period Paul? Not that it would help me much with OHs lot, there would be hundreds with the same names! But are you actually saying that? I know I found my German baker coming from Frankfurt (and other aliens can be found) or somewhere but Ireland??? Im so glad none of my line is Irish - only OHs! But as I said, I did find that his GGF was a sailor in the Royal Navy which was brilliant as I downloaded his record from NA. (That man had so many tatoos he must have been a walking art gallery!) Oh and Paul is quite right I am a novice - I am shocked how little I do know when I see the super sleuths at work!

Oh, and don't pay any attention to Heather Negative Thinker! ;-) She's only a novice. (Hi Heather!)

Ah, but.... For a brief period, all foreigners entering British ports had to be declared by the captain. My ancestor Julius Fritz arrived from Germany in 1858. I found out his year of arrival from his application for naturalisation. The records are held at the National Archives. Each quarter is represented by a box of about 1,000 sheets which were filled in by hand. They are not indexed so you would have to go through them all one by one. A lengthy task but you do stand a chance of finding what you want. I can't remember the time period concerned but I think it covers the 1850's up to the mid 1860's. I suggest you check out the National Archives site. I have to confess I dozed off in the middle of my search and woke myself up with a loud snore, and found myself being glared at from all quarters!

Hi Elaine I am in exactly the same position as you but Heather is right , on all the censuses from 1851 to 1881 my gggt grandma just says Ireland but in 1891 living with her sister she suddenly says Mayo. I have to say though that that has not really helped me to proceed any further but maybe one day.... Chris

Afraid not. They could enter England easily without any sort of restrictions back then. Does his occupation help? Say if he or his father was in the military you may be able to find some sort of info. You have bought their marriage certificate? That will give you both fathers names and occupations. You could try the IGI on familysearch.org? Have you checked every census entry for them as sometimes you find they add a bit more info on one.

My 3ed ggf was according to census born in Ireland in 1824, he married in London in 1863, to a woman also from Ireland. My tree has come to a standstill!! Is there any way I could see a shipping list for when he James Reardon, and she Margaret Lynch came from Ireland and if possible what part of Ireland they came from?