Genealogy Chat

hi, have just received my grandfathers birth cert. i am trying to work out his middle name - it looks like CALVERT. is there such a name? i cant send to anyone as i cant scan at the moment (it not working).

Could be a surname being used as a middle name.....I have certainly heard it used as a surname. I have several 'Stone' as middle names and I am sure it will either turn out that was a maiden name back down the line or they originally came from Stone 'up north'. Chris

All manner of names are used. This could be a surname of someone, if you delve back from him. Is the birth registration after the dates when they included the full name.? Is he still alive? Gwyn

Just had another thought.... If you have a look at the Hugh Wallis site he has a section on surnames used as middle names, indexed county by county, found in the IGI. Chris

as taken from birth cert: no.350, thirteenth april 1890, 19fisher street (...... not sure of word) west ham. arthur ernest CALVERT. BOY. father samuel thomas CALVERT thompson. mother sophia elizabeth thompson formally clark, father occ. ...........clerk (not sure of 1st word). signature of informant s t c thompson father 19 fisher street, when registered twenty third april 1890 no he's not alive. i have only just started on my mothers side as i was given alot of wrong info by my mums half sister as she didnt want me doing the tree.

Not that it may have anything to do with your family .....but if you go to the freebmd site and search on THOMPSON ..with first name as * Calvert, you get some 'hits'. Gwyn

I hesitate to post too much because I'm guessing you might like the thrill of the chase yourself, but there are a few clues in the censuses regarding the Calvert name. The 1891 census for Arthur and parents is: Class: RG12; Piece: 1322; Folio 82; Page 54 On there it says Samuel is a commercial clerk so maybe that fills in the word on the birth certificate. I think there maybe something interesting in the 1851 census; Class: HO107; Piece: 1534; Folio: 324; Page: 11; Schedule 56 Not sure how it ties together yet, but the Calvert and Thompson names figure! Anyway, some more info... Samuel and Sophia in 1881: Class: RG11; Piece: 1711; Folio: 114; Page: 76 and their marriage ref: Sep Q 1879 West Ham 4a 163 Samuel Thomas C Thompson Sophia Elizabeth Clark In the 1871 census it looks possible that Samuel may still have been using the surname Calvert, and he had been married before: Class: RG10; Piece: 233; Folio: 37; Page: 2 marriage ref: Mar Q 1871 Pancras 1b 178 Samuel Thomas Calvert Mary Ann Taylor Samuel seems elusive in the 1861 census, but maybe some of this will be useful? Chris

thanks. if as you say he was married before as samuel thomas calvert, where does the thompson name fit into things? am i being really stupid and missing ther obvious here?

No, no that's the trouble, it's not obvious at all, and all of this could be wrong, but there may be something in it. The 1891 census entry is definitely the right family based on the birth certificate you have, and I would say that the 1881 census is too. In the 1851 census, there is a Samuel Calvert, aged 9, living with his father John Calvert and his grandmother Jane Thompson. That's the link, and it's difficult to tell what it means (if anything) with regard to Samuel's surname. The only thing I can suggest is to buy the marriage certificate of Samuel Thompson and Sophia Clark and see whether he was a widow or not, and find out what his father's name and occupation were, as John Calvert was a 'type founder' on the 1851 census. Pretty distinctive and it should give a few more clues as to whether the info I've found is any good or not. :-) Chris

thanks again.. i did look at the 1851 and thats why i had no idea. it looks like more of my family are not who they 'thought' they were etc. i stil cant see how or why he suddenly added thompson to his name.

No, I don't know either. I have something similar to this in my tree and I'm not sure how to get to the bottom of it. It may be that Samuel's father was born Calvert, his father died, then his mother re-married to someone called Thompson. It seems to me that people used their birth names and their stepfather's names interchangeably, but why Samuel started using the Thompson name after 1871 (if it is him with the name Calvert in 1871 and earlier) I don't know. Chris

I have a couple of instances where surnames have been used as middle names and it seemed to become a family tradition to use that middle name for several generations which makes it really helpful when checking back especially if the rest of the name is fairly common. So it might be worth looking back further to see if the same is true for yours. Sue

as you said it looks like it could be. will have to get the marriage cert when i get some money. it may be like on the other part of this side of family - they are bigmores then suddenly they are bigmore-haylocks then haylocks and i cant work out why.