Genealogy Chat

Looking for a death certificate for Margaret Ellen Waite (born Welch/Welsh) in 1852 Newcastle. Entry in Jan qtr 1914 Totnes 5b 273 shows a Margaret H Waite age 63. I applied for certificate as we have her resident in that area. But have had 2 rejection emails from ons. Ist states that `cannot produce certificate as the middle name at birth is incorrect`. 2nd states that `cannot produce certificate as the forenames at birth is partially incorrect` Before I email them back, at a bank hol weekend (lol) can anyone tell me what all this means & what I`ve done wrong? Thanks Neil

You've probably given them too much info........all that is actually required is the name, year/qtr, district, vol & page nos. If even one letter is different, they will not supply the cert............ Reg

Hi Reg, Thats all they did get! Margaret H Waite Totnes Jan qtr 1914 5b 273 age 63. Neil

Very odd..........I didn't know that death certs in 1914 included birth details!! You might get more joy from the local registrar's office............ Reg

Wonder if she was wrongly registered as Margaret Helen and this was later amended to Margaret Ellen, but the index wasn't? The GRO are dead picky over these tiny details. But as Reg said - birth details arent normally on death certs of that date. OC

Thanks for that Reg. Going to email ons & see what reply I get then ring Totnes. Why is NOTHING straightforward! Neil

Neil Did you get the ref from FreeBMD - did you check the image? Angela UPDATE - have checked image, looks correct to me as per your post.

Neil,just read your query.Do you think perhaps that gro got it wrong in the entry as you state Ellen as her middle name but the entry is H which could be for Helen.Why dont you ring them up and ask to speak to a superviser.Explain and perhaps as I did tell them you know its your relative and how can you obtain this certificate if they are not prepared to give it to you with the information they have provided on the index.I had the same problem when applying for a mother and daughter certificate.One contradicted the other so they took it upon themselves to not supply the daughter one.All to do with her having been married and then having a child with another person so surnames didnt fit in.I had not asked for any cross references and so queried it.They relented and supplied me with the certificate and did not charge me any more...Wanda.

Hi Neil, It is just possible, looking at the Jan-Feb-Mar 1914 image, that the middle initial is actually 'E' rather than 'H', which would tie in with the birth record you have, and would also explain why the GRO rejected your application for a Margaret H Waite. It is difficult to tell, but it does look as though the entry could have been mistranscribed. Chris

Just checked the image on the findmypast website. It's clearer than the Ancestry image and I am 99% certain that the actual entry on the image is Margaret E Waite. The transcription on Ancestry and freeBMD appears to be wrong. Chris

As someone has said'they are dead picky'! Twice I tried for a Mary Sturgess Northampton. Twice they refused it. Turned out she was registered as Mary Sturges(one S). Try again using just Margaret and the surname and GRO no. M

I also think you are giving too much info. You need name-Margaret Waite. jan q 1914 Totnes 5b 273 Don't add extra info even if you know it's correct as it may not be recorded that way!

Marie and Wendy, I'm curious now! There is definitely a middle initial in the death index entry for Margaret Waite. If it's missed out when the certificate is ordered, will the GRO still supply the certificate, or will they be just as picky and say something like 'there is more than one first name on the certificate'? It'd be useful to know because these middle initials are blooming difficult to figure out at times, as it is here, but I've never dared miss them off, always chickening out and using the Register Office instead. :-) Chris

This is odd. I've not found them so picky. I recently sent off for a Milfraen Theophilus Jones birth certificate. I'd found his death details and knew from that he was born on 21 May 1904. When the birth certificate arrived I discovered he was actually registered as Melvern Theophilus Jones and despite the date of birth being on the cert, he wasn't registered until late December. The GRO must have gone to quite a bit of bother to find him. Sue

susan If you use the online ordering service from the GRO, they send you exactly what you order. If it does not match your checking points, you don't get it, full stop. But you must have ordered your cert another way as you cannot order through the automatic service by just giving a birth date. They are slightly more flexible then, because it is a human being handling your request, not a machine. However, the rules are quite clear - the GRO may not send out a certificate which does not correspond exactly with the information you supply them with. I have never managed to work out why local ROs are far more flexible on this point as they are presumably subject to the same laws as the GRO, but there it is. OC

I used the online service but the slightly more expensive option because I didn't have the Index number. I now know why I couldn't find it because he wasn't registered under the exact name or in the quarter I expected. Filling in the form online with what I did know about him did mean they could find him. As I said his birth date was right and I knew where he was born. I did know his father's name from his marriage certificate. If you are prepared to pay £10 then they do more searching. Sue

What confounds me is that a person deceased has no legal rights-so what is THEIR legal interest.?..if I state the ref plus the surname alone why cant they just send the cert...especially if the person died so long ago - ie more than 100 years....??....If it ends up being not my relative then let that be my fault rather than an excuse for red tape..

Marie my 4x great grandmother was Mary Ann Sturges b.1813 Kettering Northamptonshire, daughter of Robert and Elizabeth Sturges, if you think there may be any connection please feel free to PM me, very interested in this family,.

Thanks for ALL that info, I`m now pondering the next move. That middle initial is not clear enough to make out so I`m going to ring them & make a fuss! Thanks again Neil