Genealogy Chat

Hello Does anyone know if the 1831 census will ever be online? Thanks Sharmala.

The 1831 census has little that is of use to genealogists unfortunately. It is basically a head count. I don't think there are plans to make it available online. Lin

If you know a lot of the info the best source for that era (if you or a contact are local) is the tithe record. Around 1937 - 1842 the tithes in most places were consolidated. Check with the county records office for what they hold. Clive

hello Thanks for that linda doesnt seem as if its much use then but shall see if my local library has the records anyway. Clive Thanks for that info regarding Tithes, having just read up about them it sounds interesting shall see if my library has the records. im lucky that me and my rellies havent moved very far at all so it should be easy hopefully! Sharmala.

Clive, can you tell us what Tithes are all about? I've seen reference to it many times but never found out.

For the best part of 1,500 years the church has been keen on grabbing money - even Bede complained the church was better at collecting the tax than at administering to the souls in its area. So a tithe is a tax - meant to be one thenth (=tithe) of the produce. By the 19th century some of the land had become such that the tithe was payable to a lay person not the church. Robert Peel included in his election manifesto in the 1830s a reform of the tithe suystem which was not finaly abolished until 1890 (don't quote me - I haven't checked). The point is that a tithe is a tax. Tax collectors want to know who is supposed to pay tax. Maps and lists were kept to show who paid how much. If you want to know names etc from byegone years the tithe documents will help but not for the Ag Labs! I would point out that 1851 was unique in that for the first time the towns had more people than the countryside. The town dwellers paid a price - check for yourself but the life expectancy for a man in Liverpool was twenty nine years but in Okehampton (little more than a large village) was 58 years. The town dweller probably did not pay or know about tithes. The countryside dweller probably did. An Ag Lab was paid about 6 shillings per 6 day week. A Welsh coal mine surface worker was paid 12 shillings and got free coal!! Clive

Hello Clive you are a mind of information! but would Burnley,lancs have had these taxes for the years im looking for 1830 onwards? they werent that agricultural mainly industrial, pehaps before the cotton mills they would have been, i would think cattle rather than grain etc. Ive learnt something new today thankyou. Sharmala.

Yes Burnley would have had tithes and I note from Devonshire records occupiers were listed. If you are talking about right in the town but before the cotton mills started they had a form of tithe/local rates. Again because tax collectors like to know who to ask for money they would normally know both the property owner (who pays) and the occupier because empty places often did not pay! Clive (Nothing much changes does it?)

this is about rates - not a lot different from tithes and again showing they can be used to trace people. Following the 1601 Poor Law Act, the payment of rates to maintain the poor became compulsory. Poor rates were approved by the justices, and any complaints about unfair rating were heard at Quarter Sessions. From the mid 17th century, parishes were also able to impose a rate for repairs to the parish roads. Ratepayers had to pay county rates, which were decided on by the justices at Quarter Session, and collected locally by the constable. These included payments for the hospitals and the gaols (from 1700). An Act of Parliament of 1744 gave residents the right to inspect rate books. Any other rates needed for 'improvements' such as building a road or a canal, or enclosing land, could be levied once a local Act of Parliament had been passed. In the 19th century, various Acts of Parliament were passed to enable rates to be imposed for works which would benefit the community, without first taking the matter through Parliament, for example the Museum Act 1845, the Baths and Wash-houses Act 1846/7, the Public Libraries Acts 1850 & 1855 and the Recreation Grounds Act 1859. District Councils were formed in 1894, and were given the authority to collect rates from householders in their district. The earliest rate assessments were written into churchwardens and overseers account books. They usually list the householder’s name and the amount payable for his property. Later, printed books were used, and in Devon these date from the 1830’s. They list the houses street by street, the value of the property, the householder’s name and the amount assessed. Rate books often include properties which were not subject to land tax, and a run of rate books can be very useful for researching house history. It is best to start with the most recent book and work backwards. They can also be useful for family history to give an idea of when someone lived in a parish, or when family property changed hands. Rates held by the Devon Record Office can be found listed in the diocesan archives (mainly early 17th century rates), parish collections (church, poor and highway rates) and urban and rural district council records (late 19th and 20th century rates). Clive

If you put tithes in google, there are various interesting sites giving explanations including answers(.)com and wikipedia, and this one: The idea that people should pay tithes (10 per cent of the annual produce of land or labour) to support their local minister and parish church was established in the 8th century. In the 10th century a law was introduced to impose penalties for non-payment. It was believed that Oliver Cromwell would abolish tithes but after the House of Commons failed to agree an alternative system of church finance the proposed reform was abandoned. In the 19th century Nonconformists campaigned strongly against the payment of church tithes. Roman Catholics in Ireland were also strongly opposed to church tithes. After the passing of the 1832 Reform Act the Tories were heavily defeated in the general election that followed. In November 1834 King William IV dismissed the Whig government and appointed Robert Peel as his new prime minister. Peel immediately called a general election and during the campaign issued what became known as the Tamworth Manifesto. In his election address to his constituents in Tamworth, Peel pledged his acceptance of the 1832 Reform Act and argued for a policy of moderate reforms while preserving Britain's important traditions. The Tamworth Manifesto marked the shift from the old, repressive Toryism to a new, more enlightened Conservatism. The general election gave Peel more supporters although there were still more Whigs than Tories in the House of Commons. Despite this, the king invited Peel to form a new administration. With the support of the Whigs, Peel's government was able to pass the Dissenters' Marriage Bill and the English Tithe Bill. The commutation of tithes in Ireland followed in 1838.