Genealogy Chat

I am suspicious of the description of Ann and John as daughter and son as it would mean that Mary Ann had two children in quick succesion when she was in her 50s - not impossible I suppose but I'd say more likely that she has taken on grandchildren or other family members.

Hadn't thought of that Margaret but I don't think so in this case. The census's show her as head of family, a widow and only her sons/daughters living with her.

Hi Lin, Don't forget the possibility that one parent may have remarried and 'inherited' a child with the same first name as one of their own. Margaret

Glitter, that is the right family, I think there was probably two Ann's the first born 1834 who appeared on 1851 Census, I assumed she was married by 1861 as she was 26yrs. but then another Ann shows up in 1871 aged 13yrs. so maybe the first died and the second named after her. Just so confusing!!! Cougar, have checked census's can't find John Henry Arnold(1856c) at all before 1871. Lin

1861 if this is the right family then no Ann is listed either Name: Mary Arnold Age: 54 Estimated birth year: abt 1807 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: John Gender: Female Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Botolph Without Bishopsgate County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: East London Sub-registration district: St Botolph ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 311 Household Members: Name Age Charles Arnold 12 John Arnold 58 Mary Arnold 54 John Hodge 39

1871 just for info Name: John Arnold Age: 14 Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Relation: Son Mother's name: Mary Ann Gender: Male Where born: Bishopsgate, London, England Civil parish: Bishopsgate County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: London City Sub-registration district: St Botolph ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 219 Household Members: Name Age Ann Arnold 13 Charles Arnold 21 John Arnold 14 Mary Ann Arnold 65 All shown as born Bishopsgate

Unfortunately, I haven't got back any further than John Arnold 1802 & Mary Ann 1806, (John in question's parents). It's proving difficult as lots of siblings with children all of the same name, area and ages. Doesn't help the fact they sometimes used their middle names, sometimes nicknames urgh!!!! Do you think ordering a cert. would be the best thing to do, if so should I go for the death cert of the 1st John Henry or the birth cert. of the 2nd John Henry?

He could have been staying with friends or relatives. Have you gone far enough back to see if he's with grandparents/aunt/uncle etc?

I may be clutching at straws, but I guess its possible that the 1st John did die and they had another John, who was simply being looked after by maybe neighbours or relatives on the 1861 census night?

Shirley, if there was a 2nd John born 1856 why isn't he shown with the family on 1861 Census? It doesn't make sense if all the other children were at home. Lin

Sorry to take so long to give any feedback to your help, I can onlyget on here very late at night. Sue, I don't know how to put the details of 1871 up but it contains the following: Mary Ann Arnold - Head - 65yrs., Ann Arnold - Daughter - 13yrs., John Arnold - Son - 14yrs. and Charles Arnold - Son - 21yrs.

well heres the refs for thefirst John henry Birth Dec 1849 John Henry Arnold E London 2 222 Death Mar 1850 John Henry Arnold E London 2 152 ------------------------------- two poss birth for the 2nd one John henry Arnold june 1857 Pancras 1b 29 John Henry Arnold June 1856 Stepney 1c ??? (unreadable) The 1871 census details would help the search

Hi Can you put the family up for 1871 Thanks Sue

If he was born in 1849 he wouldn't be 14 in 1871 are you sure it's the same son and that he didn't die and another son be named the same?

Any ideas please, I have a family who are all shown together on every census with the exception of one son. He was born John Henry Arnold 12.11.1849, he doesn't appear on 1851 or 1861 but turns up on 1871. I thought he must have died and found a death 1st qtr. 1850 which would have explained everything but to suddenly turn up aged 14 seems strange. Any ideas why only one son is not at home with the rest of his siblings? Father John Arnold 1802 vanishes after 1861 but no death registration, unless you know otherwise!!