Genealogy Chat

Is it possible to obtain a marriage cert. prior to 1837. I would like if possible to do so but the entry on Pallots doesn't give details required.

No, there were no marriage certs issued before 1837. You will have to look up the marriage in the parish register - but don't expect to find much more info on there than is on the IGI or Pallots - pre-1837, the marriage register recorded only the bride & groom's names, marital status (bachelor/spinster/widowed), whether they were ''of the parish'' or not, whether they married by licence or after banns, and the names of two witnesses. You are unlikely to find other details such as ages, father's names, occupations etc - those details were only added from 1837 onwards.

Hi Richard, When I checked all that was showing was the two names on a little scrap of paper, nothing to say the date, of the parish or their status, Is that normal or would there be a little more info. than that. Lin

There will certainly be more info in the register than is shown on the Pallots index card - you should at least get the full date and the names of the witnesses. Do you mean that you can't tell the parish from the info on Pallots? Usually these cards do at least tell you the parish - this is usually stamped onto the card in blue ink, but they can be a bit feint and also are often abbreviated. Why not tell us the names and year of the marriage, someone might then be able to work out the correct parish for you. You'd then need to view the microfilm of that register, either at the records office or at your local LDS centre. Richard

Hi Richard, Sorry I didn't get back, I have unfortunately been the victim of a burglary and everything else has taken a back seat. Anyway, I'm back on track so here goes: The marriage is between John Arnold 1802 and Mary Ann ????????1806 the marriage I found was 1827 - I have had some feedback from various people and have been told St Leonards Church, Parish of Shoreditch. How do I find out the witnesses or get an sort of copy of the entry please. Linda

Hi, This must be the Pallots record you're refering to: Spouse 1: Allington, Mary Spouse 2: Arnold, John Marriage Date: 1827 Parish Name: SHOREDITCH ST LEONARD'S Deb:)

Hi Deb, That is the record, do you know what I have to do next in order to find out who the witnesses were? Lin

Hi Lin, I'm not really sure how to go about tracking parish records. Maybe you could try contacting St Leonard's in Shoreditch or even google to see if there's a historic society there that could point you in the right direction. Deb:)

Hi Lin The Shoreditch records are I think at the Guildhall Library in London. If you are too far away from there, you can borrow a copy of the register on microfilm at your nearest Family History Centre of the LDS. I had a look on their catalogue for you (it is online at www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC) - and this is the film that you need: Church of England. St. Leonard's Church (Shoreditch, Middlesex) Marriages 1826-1828 FHL BRITISH Film 405107 You can find your nearest FHC here: www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC Cheers Richard

Morning I question the statement about lack of detail in parish registers. It very much depends on the vicar/churchwarden at the time. One register I looked at (for someone else) made me drool with envy because of the amount, quality, and dates of the entries back to 1605 that I saw. Details of both parents, full details of the banns, full details of the bridal pair for starters. CB

I agree with Clive - most of the parish registers I look at are full of detail! My relatives are mainly from Lancashire and Cheshire. One small nonconformist church has even put the congregation into family groups, giving names of the parents in full, and of THEIR parents too, along with details of previous marriages and liaisons and little asides like 'her child by Joe Bloggs'. Perhaps I have just been extremely lucky - but if you don't look, you will never know WHAT little gems are in store. OC

I doubt very much that there will be any additional info in this case, but I agree that it's worth a look at the originals - if only to get the witness names. All the marriage registers in London that I've looked at from that time period contained no more info than what was required to be filled in on the pre-printed forms of the time (and sometimes not even that!). I can't say that I've looked at St Leonards marriages (though I have looked at their baptisms), but I don't suppose it will be much different. Would be nice to be proven wrong, of course! Remember that these were huge parishes with dozens of events recorded each week, so no doubt the book-keeping was an onerous enough task as it was. For this church alone, there are 74 rolls of microfilm! The marriages on the particular film that I mentioned above cover just a three year time span. Whereas - some country parishes fit their entire history of baptisms, marriages and burials on one or two films!

I recently extracted records from a number of local parish registers for a GR friend in Australia. Most of the registers were very similar, along the lines of: 29th December 1896 John Smith of Wateringbury & Alice Jones of this parish after banns One register was about 5 times as thick the others which seemed amazing given that the village is and was tiny... until I started reading! One of the Vicars wrote a lengthy paragraph about every marriage during his long tenure. It was lovely to have all the detail, but it took ages to transcribe!

Thank you each and all for all your help. I'm lucky enough to live within 5 mins. to an LDS Centre so will be taking a trip there this week.

Richard I was forgetting we were talking about London parishes. However, I have found that it pays, always, to look at the film of the originals, no matter where in the country. I had one register which had marriages as you describe - Joe Bloggs to Alice Snodgrass, both of this parish - and very little else. Imagine my delight then, on winding the film slowly, to the very end, past a big piece of blank film, to find the original Banns Book, which the Vicar had used as a marriage register. Carefully recorded there were names of both sets of parents, dates the Banns were read, the signatures of the bride and groom and the signatures of all witnesses (eleven, in one case, lol) and the relationship of the witnesses to the married couple! OC

OC - I wish that I had your ancestors LOL! In fact you're more likely to find additional info in the PR's prior to 1813 than after that date - as that was the start of the George Rose's pre-printed registers, with the result that very little extra info was recorded other than what was required to fill in the form. Yes of course there are exceptions and it's ALWAYS worth checking - but just don't get your expectations too high Lin - certainly not for London in the 1820's!

It could be worth having a look at London Signatures in case a marriage bond comes up.