Genealogy Chat

Hi all, I've hit a brick wall and I wondered if any one could help. I'm in the proccess of doing my hushbands family tree. But have hit a brick wall and don't know where to go from here. The problem is this: Thomas Frederick Kirkham b1877 approx. (known as Frederick) this is my husband's G Grandfather Don't know if he was born in Liverpool or Bunbury, or when he died. Martha Dutton b1876 in Tarpoley, traced her family thanks to this site. Problem is there is no marriage anywhere, thier names are on daughter Frances birth certificate 1911, but can't find anything on her father. Any ideas where I should go from here? All help greatfully recieved.

Which images have you viewed in your search for the marriage? Reg

Has Martha been located on 1901 census? Is she the one on 1891 whose birth year is c1879? Reg

On birth certificate he is a Dock Labourer

marriage images viewed : FreeBMD, Lanc&Ches BMD and Ancestry.

I meant ' for which years had you viewed the images?' Should perhaps have made it clearer........... Could you answer the questions about 1891 and 1901...............might help with time-scale....... Reg

Hi Bernadette.. its not clear the way you have written your request down.. Thomas Frederick Kirkham married Martha Dutton no marriage found ? Dau Frances Kirkham b 1911 West Derby Oct-Dec whats the address on birth cert... Thomas's occ was a Dock Labourer in 1911 You say born either Lpool or Bunbury ?? What other children did Thomas & Martha have ? Colette

Sorry about not making it clearer, as you've prob guessed I'm new to all this. Hope this makes it a little clearer, On Frances Kirkham's certificate father is listed as Frederick Kirkham, occupation Dock Labourer, address 42a iliad Street, Liverpool, Date 10/11/1911. Grave details list Fred as 'Thomas Frederick Kirkham' b1878 d1952. I can't find any matches on 1901, 1891 or 1881 census. Fred's wife Martha was from Tarpoley, Cheshire she was b1876. They had Frances b1911 and son William, daughter Mary unfortunately birth date are unknown. In 1891 Martha is living with her Grandfather John Dutton, in Tarpoley, Cheshire. Hope this is clearer. Thanks

could this be the marriage? Thomas F Kirkham 1910 oct nov dec West Derby lancs 8b 638

1891........ Name: Martha Dutton Age: 12 Estimated birth year: abt 1879 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Tarporley, Cheshire, England Civil parish: Tarporley Ecclesiastical parish: Tarporley County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Registration district: Nantwich Sub-registration district: Bunbury ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age John Dutton 77 Martha Dutton 12 Reg

Lynne To clarify....(I've been tearing out hair as well)........the birth reg'n for Frances shows MMN as Dutton. What I really would like Bernadette to tell us is where Martha was in 1901. I've been looking at the possibility that she married twice................ Reg

Hi Reg, Sorry but I don't know where Martha is in 1901 census, she just dissappears. Wouldn't it say if she was married before on the cert? Or maybe they never married at all and she just took his name. Thanks for trying Reg.

The birth cert of the daughter would not necessarily indicate whether either parent had been married previously........it depends on whether the question was asked.....or the information volunteered. If the registrar merely said 'What's the MMN?', the person registering the birth would probably just give the name. Can I just check with you how you arrived at this particular Martha Dutton as being the mother of Frances Kirkham? Without the benefit of a marriage cert, I wonder how you know how old she was, and where she might have been born. I daresay there's a clear and cogent answer, but I'm puzzled............ Reg

Lynne How old is Sam in 1901? Reg

Lynne I think you've cracked it....marriages Thomas Barnes 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Fred Kirkham 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Frederick Kirkham 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Martha Murray 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Thomas Robinson Radcliffe 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Sarah Rivett 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire View Record Frederick William Stant 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Chester Cheshire, Flintshire View Record Martha Timmis 1902 Oct-Nov-Dec Nantwich Cheshire Well done you!!!!!! Reg

Does this death fit? Samuel Murray abt 1874 1901 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Reg

I take my Hats of to you Lynne & Reg - this thread has been driving me made all day. Had thought along the same lines, Martha being married before but just couldn't put it together. Well done Jane

Thanks All, your've set me off on a new track. I think the best thing to do now is get the marriage cert (Murray & Kirkham) and see if Martha's father's name matches. Then maybe I can find a clue as to where Thomas 'Frederick' lived before marrying Martha. Thanks again, I'm grateful for your help.