Genealogy Chat

It is thought my grandmother known as Sarah Webb (married names Bootham and died as Lister) was probably born in Manchester or London c1908. However, it has never been possible to find her birth certificate. It seems she may have been illegitimate, the real father was named Campbell, then from being a child was brought up in Manchester with a mother named Mary and a step father or real father named James Webb. If Sarah was taken on by James Webb, as his own, when he married or lived with her mother Mary, how might Sarah have got through life without a birth certificate to support the name of Webb when having to produce if for official purposes? Was it likely her name would have been officially changed or been adopted and how might I approach finding this record? Sarah came from a working class background so there would not have been much money or educated parents in order to make such changes. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks Colin

She would have just change it. My grandad was born as Reginald Sargent in 1905-he was illegitemate and taken in by 'Strong' family-he just called himself Strong-on his marriag cert it says Sargent known as Strong-but they didn't ask for proof in those days-. The vicar just wrote down what they were told. so quite easy to just merge names really. My dad didn't know my grandad was taken in and name chnged until they tried to rgister his death in 1986-and they couldn't find a birth for reginald Strong-it was only on emptying the house they found the cert to enlighten them! Also they could put anything on the birth cert at the time-the Father didn't have to be present like these days and no officil adoption till late 1920's-1927 I think? google andyou can check.

FFF Can I just make a small correction to your post, for the sake of other researchers? The father of an illegitimate child has ALWAYS had to be present at registration, since civil registration began, apart from a few short years in the 1850s (dates?). This of course did not stop any woman from lying through her teeth and saying she was a married woman. The Registrar would not insist on seeing a marriage certificate. It is only VERY recently that we have all had to prove who we are by birth certificates, etc. Before that, anything you said was taken on trust by officialdom, and everyone else. Legally, you can use any name you like, providing you are not doing it to defraud or deceive. It is only recently that a different name on a BC would cause anyone any problems, or arouse suspicion. OC

I think in the early 20th century there were a lot of unofficial adoptions so nothing would have been on paper. Ann Glos

Hi Clive - what was Mary's (the mother's) maiden name? you could try looking for the birth under this name. Good luck

There are several Sarah CAMPBELLs born in Lancashire at the right time. If you apply to the local Register Office and state that the mother's name must be Mary, they will not charge you for an incorrect certificate. (I am not sure how you will know if you have the RIGHT certificate, though!) OC

Adoption in the sense we know it was only formally legalised in about 1925/1027? Although the term was still used, I have a few little children with my families who in Census and the bit where the relation to head is, states adopted. Although they wouldnt have been adopted in the same way (legally speaking at least) that I was in 1978 R

have you got her marriage certificate to see what, if anything, it says in her fathers details? I'd get her wedding certificate, then find the one for her mother and poss father/stepfather and then work out if that was before her birth or not. Her marriage cert will have her age at marriage (although this is sometimes a year of two out) I've got ones that have been born out of wedlock and lived with granny or auntie and then mums remarried and the child(ren) have suddenly appeared back with mum with new step fathers surname. I have also been told, and found several cases of it in my tree that if men tended to remarry, or pretend to have done, or even pretend its the same wife (especially as divorce was so expensive) that the woman has had the same first name as the last one! But I dont know what other peoples experiences are. To confuse the matter even more, and onyl a few decades ago, I know of one person who had a child out of wedlock, married another man a year or so later and then went back to the registra later and basically told fibs and said they hadnt wanted to put fathers name on as they hadnt been married and got it changed! Hubby was not father of baby! Dunno how they managed that one!!!

My experience has been the kids just took on the name of the adopted family. I have noted that they would on their marriage cert or on joining the military use the original fathers name or a combination of the two. However, if her father was unknown, she wouldnt do that would she. I take it you have her marriage cert?