Genealogy Chat

I've just looked up 2 Census reports for the same family which are incredibly faint - if anyone has a moment please could they have a look? 1841 Stepney, 14 Brook Street: ......... Leader, age 50 (looks like Harriet but I don't think it is) Robert Leader, 25 Sophia Leader, 20 Robert Leader, 16 (surely there aren't 2 brothers called Robert?!) 1851 Stepney, 29 Collingswood (?) Place Robert Leader, 33 Sophia Leader, 32 Robert Leader, 10 son Frances Leader, 5 dau Jesse (??) Leader, 2 son (I think this is Jesse, I've found a birth which matches) Also, Sophia is shown as coming from Belgium, but I can't read the town. Many thanks

1841 I can't work out the first name either, ...it looks like it ends with a double S (written fs). Have you seen another Stepney entry for a Robert and Sophia at Hamlet Court? They seem to be the same age as your people and have a 4 months old child with them. I wonder if they have been recorded twice and the child on the 1st entry should be 16 weeks? .... just a thought. Gwyn

Well tht's interesting Frances - because I THINK the name you weren't sure of is Francess (yeah, spelling wasn't necessarily their strong point)! Anyway, The last three letters are certainly ess (as they wrote a double s in those days). And the person is female because the age is written in the female column. And yes, there are two Roberts keeping Francess and Sophia company! One a nephew perchance? Victoria

Thank you for looking - much appreciated! It is indeed Frances, I just found her 10 years later living alone in the same road. There is something very elusive about this Leader family - I've just found out I've been chasing the wrong family after receiving a birth cert. for the daughter Frances. The other family also had a mother Frances too! All other branches of my tree are fairly straight forward, and I've found lots of matches on GR. But I've not found anyone with a match to this family so far! It's a challenge anyway!

Frances, the city is Antwerp. Interestingly Robert and Sophia's first daughter is called Frances too. I am wondering if Robert and Sophia weren't already married and the second Robert is their son whose age has been wrongly entered. I have found a Robert Leader, born in Stepney in the March quarter of 1841. Just maybe he was 16 DAYS old!! That 'feels' right. And yes, young Jesse is 2. No obvious marriage for Robert to Sophia but maybe a quarter by quarter trawl would yield something. Victoria

Frances, I still can't find a marriage for Robert BUT it would appear he was born 2 May 1817 and baptised 2 November the same year. His parents were Robert and Frances!! He was baptised at St Leonards, Shoreditch. This is an extracted record [rather than a submitted one] from the IGI. Victoria

Hi Victoria, Thank you for taking the time to help me! I guess I won't be able to trace Sophia's family back further if they were from Antwerp! I know her maiden name was Sibley (I have daughter Frances' birth cert) but that doesn't sound very Belgian! Maybe she anglicised the name. Yes, Robert & Sophia did have a son Robert who appears as 10 yrs old on 1851 Census, so it would make sense that he was a few days old on 1841 Census. I have searched for the marriage quarter by quarter but I think it may have been just before 1837 or whenever the earliest date is you can search on BMD. Thank you for confirming Robert's parents - I guessed his father was another Robert! Please can you tell me what the IGI is?

Francis, Sorry - dinner and 'The Bill' got in the way!! The IGI is the International Genealogical Index - the Mormons site. It can be reached at www*familysearch.org (replace asterisk with a fullstop). Also listed on the IGI is (note the different spelling of Leader) Mary LEEDER - Birth: 09 JUL 1819 Christening: 01 OCT 1819 Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England Victoria

Never say never!! Sometime you can find a way around problems and don't forget that so much more is becoming available very quickly. When I first started there were microfishe at the local library - and only the 1881 was indexed so if you didn't know where the people lived fairly precisely there was no hope of finding them on any other census! And now look at what is available - ONLINE!! I have looked for a marriage for Sophia Sibley and although two showed up, neither appeared to be yours and not in London. Then I wondered if she had been widowed almost as soon as she was married and looked on freeBMD for a marriage for Sophia Lewis and Sophia Skelton - to Robert Leader/Leeder - but no luck. Being born in Belgium doesn't necessarily mean she was Belgian. It is possible her parents just happened to be there for a year or two (a few people were a darned sight more mobile than ever we would have thought). On the 1841 census is a Charlt (Charlotte I would imagine) Sibley who is a 46 year old female servant living in Lower Sloane Street. She says she was not born in the county but didn't tick the Scotland, Irleland & foreign parts column so ???? But worth keeping a note of. There are a number of other options that you might care to check out. I tried putting in just Leader, 1816 + or - 10 years and Belgium as the place of birth - and it immediately brought up Sophia - but when I put in Sibley and the same details nothing came up. Thing is, if she had a sister born there who had married, it wouldn't help and I can only suppose no brothers were born there. It would certainly seem more likely that the Sibley's came to England rather than Robert who was a labourer went there and brought her home. Anyway, best of luck Victoria

Many thanks for your help, Victoria! You have found some interesting info for me. I have an inkling that Sibley may have been an anglicised version of her name. My mum left me a handwritten tree, she thought that the name was Siebeldelieder!! Obviously put Sibley & Leader together, but maybe her own mother remembered the name Siebel.... Anyhow, thanks again for your help!