Genealogy Chat

I think I know the answer, but here goes! My granddad came from Lyallpur, NE Pakistan, now known as Faisalabad. Very little is known about him. He has a dubious date of birth, given as Christmas day 1925, but looking at his photo I suspect this was given to him in order for him to apply for a passport. I guess I would age him by another 20 years at the most. He has a very common surname for that area - Din, first name Nizam. He left Pakistan and lived in Dublin for about 4 years before coming to live in Birmingham. I know the name of his father, and his mother's first name. What are the chances of progressing any further? Mandy

Hi Mandy I am sorry I cant help you, but please dont give up, I remeber watching on TV 'Who do you think you are?' and cannot remember which celebrity it was but they had relatives from either Pakistan or India and the records they found were fantastic, although they were not online. Never give up hope, someone may see your post and be able to help you Happy hunting Ann

Mandy People immigrating from South Asia would almost ALWAYS go to a place where they already had friends/relatives living and where there was an established Asian community. They would never randomly have picked out a town or city of which they had no knowledge and where they had no contacts. I would say it is almost certain that your granddad had relatives/contacts in Dublin already, and similarly in Birmingham. Someone wouldn't have gone from Pakistan to Dublin without having connections and a clear purpose. You might strike lucky if you dig around in this country a bit first. Find out the addresses of mosques and Asian community centres, etc, where he lived. See if anyone knows more about him. I expect you will find it very difficult to trace that surname in Pakistan. The reason being that it is not really a surname in the sense that we mean. In Pakistani culture surnames/family names are not used in the same way. It is VERY common for children to be given their father's first name as a family name. He, in turn, might have his father's first name, or a tribal name, as his 'surname'. In accordance with Islamic tradition, women retain their own surnames upon marriage, rather than taking on their husband's. You will often come across nuclear families in which three or four 'surnames' are used. This is still very common in this country today. I know of an extended family in my town in which three elderly (full) brothers each have different 'surnames'. Pakistan, being a Muslim country, has incorporated a lot of Arabic vocabulary into its own language. The word 'Din' (pronounced Deen) is the Arabic word for 'religion' or 'path'. It is very commonly used as a suffix, to form a name. Examples include: Jamal-udin (beauty of the religion); Nur-udin (light of the religion); Ala-din (Alladin!) (elevated height of the religion). This means that 'Din' is not really a 'surname', but actually part of the given name. Often, when a 'surname' has never really been used within the family, the 'Din' bit has often taken its place on documents, and somehow continues over the generations. This happens a lot in this country, but not so in Pakistan, where it would not really be recognised as a 'surname'. You really need to find out if another family name was ever used. What was his father's 'surname'? That might be more helpful to you......unless, of course, that was 'Din' as well! lol Good luck! Amanda

Wow! Amanda, thank you so much for all this information. A lot for me to digest and leads to follow up. As far as the family are aware he knew no-one in either Dublin or Birmingham. But I have found out that he became a caretaker of mosque in bham, so I am trying to find out which one and I will start with this. His father's 'surname' was Din too! Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that to me, I have learned a lot.

Mandy The mosque lead is a good one. You could make some useful contacts. Communities are very close-knit and as he was once a caretaker, he would most certainly be known. I suggest you place a lot of emphasis on how proud you are to have that link to Pakistan and how eager you are to explore that side of your family etc etc. You tend to find that the members of a small Asian community in the UK will nearly all originate from the same town, or more often village, in India or Pakistan. If you can find friends or distant relatives of your granddad in this country, chances are many, if not all of them, will still be in touch with people 'back home'. People may be willing to make contact with family in Pakistan on your behalf, and possibly even do some fact findinig for you on one of their visits there. It's really worth pursuing this, as it could make a difficult task so much easier. You may be right about your granddad not having any connections in Dublin, but I think it unlikely. At that time, Irish people were coming over to England, in their thousands, to work (and continued to for most of the last century) because there wasn't enough work for them in Ireland. There wouldn't have been many opportunities for an Asian man in Dublin, especially if he had no connections. It's unlikely that he went to Ireland, rather than to the industrial towns and cities of England, where work was plentiful, and where the Irish themselves were headed, unless he had a very good reason for going there. It might be worth keeping this avenue open for future research. As far as the photograph goes, back then people tended to look much older than their real ages. My great granddad died in 1935, aged just 62. His wife died 2yrs later, also aged 62. I have photograph of them, probably taken two or three years before his death. They both look about 80! In your granddad's case, people from hot countries often have 'weathered' skin and can look much older than they are, so this might have further added to the aged appearance. Best of luck! Amanda

Thank you once again Amanda. Feel a bit nervous about approaching the mosque, but it's certainly the best lead I have so far. Just got to find out which one.

I have always found people at mosques extremely helpful and understanding. You should certainly be accompanied or have your husband/brother make the first contact or check the mosque's website for a female contact. Quite possibly the mosque will have a schools liaison set up which could provide a contact point. C