Genealogy Chat

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I have the marriage certificate of John Butcher, aged 21 and Sarah Sharp, aged 20, dated 25 Dec 1851, Bethnal Green. The groom’s father is named as James, a shoemaker. Witnesses - George and Annie Potts I can’t find a John Butcher b1831 Spitalfields (info from later census) to a James. The only one to come up on IGI (I have also been to LMA and trawled through PRs) has a father named Joseph. Amongst this Joseph’s other children is Ann Miram Butcher. Who then goes on to marry George Potts and witnesses this marriage. I know they could be cousins but given that I can find no other trace of John is it possible that they are siblings and that the certificate has the name of the father wrong? Sue PS I also have an issue with the brides father! Maybe the vicar/registrar had a VERY merry Christmas! lol

Hi Sue, Like anything else that is written down, there ARE mistakes! My grandmother's surname is wrong on her cert, a friend has a cert where the occupations of the fathers have been transposed and I know of another one where the 2 fathers have had all their details transposed. If you look at PR for just one parish, you will often find many crossings out where the vicar has made an error and corrected it. So, as he then copied out all the details for his returns, it is easy to see how mistakes were made. (Especially if he was working by candlelight!) Jay

I have a marriage cert. from 1905 I have discovered the fathers name was made up - the groom was illegitimate !!

Have you found the couple on any censuses prior to their marriage? Reg

Thanks, I've had certs before where there has been spelling/mistranscription mistakes with names - in fact the problem with the brides father on this cert is probably that - Barnett when it should be Barnabas which I've suspected for some time now and I think I was a bit thrown by the possibility of two mistakes like that on one certificate! I think I'll probably pencil Joseph in lighly as John's father and see what else I can find thanks Sue

My great great grandmother was called Jane Chidy on her marriage certificate when she was actually Jane Chidgey... More recently (in the 50s) my aunt had her surname spelled wrong on the marriage certificate.

Reggie If John is the son of Joseph and Mary yes I've got him in 1841 but not 1851. If Sarah is the daughter of Barnabas (who died pre 1837) and not Barnett I might have her with her mother and step father in 1851 but not in 1841! Confused? - I am,lol Sue

I know this is the wrong place but there is this James with a son John on the 1841 census:- Name: James Butcher Age: 45 Estimated birth year: abt 1796 Gender: Male Civil parish: St Marylebone Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division) County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Registration district: St Marylebone Sub-registration district: Christchurch Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Eliza Butcher 44 Eliza Butcher 12 James Butcher 45 James Butcher 14 John Butcher 6 Reuben Butcher 4 William Butcher 8 The image is very faint but it looks as if James's occupation might be shoemaker. Kath. x

Hi Kathleen I had this one as John's family for some time but all the siblings either side of that John always give their place of birth as Marylebone in following census and my John is always Spitalfields. Which has always made me wonder if they were the right family. If John is the son of Joseph and Mary he was baptised at Spitalfields Christchurch .... Sue PS There is also in 1851census a John Butcher b 1831 St Marylebone, living St Marylebone who is not my John!

Is your copy of John's marriage cert an actual copy of the marriage register? If not, it may be wise to check the original and see what it says there. One of my copied certificates gives the bride's father as Janet,(like his daughter) when it should have said James. Gwyn

Hi Gwyneth I thought of that and have both! Will check the entry in the parish records next time I go to the LMA just to make sure. Sue

I have often seen confusion between James and Joseph, particularly when they are abbreviated to Jas and Jos! Mind you, I have some real howlers in my collection - everyone had an input in getting wrong, from the Vicar in the first place, to the Clerk who copied it out to send to the local RO, and then the clerk who copied in the local RO and sent to the GRO, and then the GRO copied it out and sent it to me - by the time I got it, it was a work of fiction, lol. OC