Genealogy Chat

Interestingly, I discovered that dodgy accountants were nothing new. My great-great-great grandfather, one Edward Willday of Worcestershire, was sentenced to twelve months hard labour in 1875 for the crime of larceny by a servant. Over three dates in October that year he took £723 10s and 12d, which a website I found called www*measuringworth*com (replace * with .) calculates as around £46k in today's money. Edward's father, incidentally, was described as a writing clerk and merchant's clerk on the census but an accountant on his death certificate. By the sound of what people have said on this thread, I wonder if the deceased George was named as 'accountant' by the informant to make him sound grander than he was. The said Edward - and I like this very much - was doing six months in prison at the time of the 1881 census for the theft of three domestic fowls. How his wife managed on her own with six girls between 6 and 18, I'll never know - she seems to have worked as a fishmonger (although she did send one to stay with her mother on census night that year).

Margaret That is very interesting! Although I have let my membership lapse (AAT) due to the unnecessary expense (lol), I was always slightly uneasy that we were being coerced into going for higher qualifications - at vast expense, naturally, by being reminded that we were not professional accountants. Although I was personally very proud of myself for getting this paper qualification in my advancing years, I do realise that any competent bookkeeper could get the qualification with ease, and I have this feeling that it is all part of the Blair Plan to make us all 'qualified' - and the resulting lucrative spin-off for many professional bodies, colleges, etc. OC

Have scrabbled around a bit. Seems an accountant in the 1880s (plus or minus a few decades) was one who did work for others. A book-keeper was employed by a business. Hence a book-keeper with a good reputation could become an accountant by going self-employed, continuing to do the same job with his/her original business and taking on other work. Nothing changes! Thanks to all contributors. Clive

As a qualfied Accountant, a member of the professional body the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants (and there are several other bodies of qualified accountants in England), I can tell you that there is not, and never has been, any restriction on people called themselves Accountants. Indeed, it grates against me that I cannot even offer my services to individuals to help them complete their tax returns, because I do not have a Praticising Certificate (which is an extra qualification that members of the relevant bodies are required to have), but lots on 'unqualified accountants' do, and have no recourse to anybody at all. Fred Bloggs and his dog can call themselves Accountants and get away with it. Regards

OC and Reg I quite agree with you both.... we all seem to get fancy names now and not being a qualified Chartered Accountant myself I agree that the proffession would be in a funny old state with out us technicians/ bookkeepers! Joyce :)

There seems to be rather a snobbish attitude by accountants in relation to bookkeepers........I'd love to see accountants try to function without the input of bookkeepers!! Reg

Joyce I am not sure when it became law that you had to be a member of a professional body in order to truthfully describe yourself as an Accountant. I am a qualified Accounting Technician, and it is always deeply impressed upon us that we must NOT describe ourselves as Accountants, nor even allow anyone to think we are, as that would constitute fraud. OC

A possible relative of mine rose to become an extremely successful businesman in the late 1800s/early 1900s and he was quoted at length, on any subject, in all the local newspapers. He was always described as an Accountant in these lick-spittle interviews, and also on the relevant census. However, going back a bit, to see where all his money came from, I discovered that for years he had been a bookkeeper for a small, struggling business which evnrualy went bankrupt. Guess who bought the business, at 1p in the £???? And another curious thing, some FORTY YEARS LATER, he hands over a sizeable amount of money to the original owner of the company, who is now his next door neighbour in a very nobby area of Manchester. And no, the professional body of Chartered Accountants had never heard of him! Mind you, with manoeuvres like that, he certainly deserved to be called an Accountant, lol. OC

Having worked for a firm of Chartered Accountants for over 30 years.... Chartered Accountant is one thing , accountant is another! To practise as an accountant of any sort I would imagine he would have to have some kind of qualifications. maybe he was a certified accountant or maybe as you say he was just a glorified book keeper. In my humble opinion, I would have thought if he had been qualified,he would have put 'Chartered Accountant ' rather than just accountant.

Clive I had a chap who put his occ. as accountant on his marriage cert in 1914. I wrote to the Institute of Chartered Accountants to see if he was on their books (sorry can't remember the address, I googled it at the time) They couldn't find him and said that quite often people called themselves accountants when they were in fact just book keepers Sylvia

these two job names seem to be interchangeable on census returns in the mid 1880s - does anybody know whether they really were? Clive