Genealogy Chat

My Grandfather John hutchinson married Elizabeth downes(Downs) 5th june 1922 in Hartlepool ( according to his marraige certificate. father John Hutchinson deceased My Grandfather had a sister Ida , 1907 Hartlepool, ( parents John Hutchinson. Sarah Shaw) married 1895 He also had another sister Emma 1893(known as hutchinson but was in fact Helmore Her parents were Sarah Shaw and Thomas helmore Married in 1892 There is also talk of another brother ( possibly john too, died in 1914-18 war) The puzzle is .... My grandfather appears to have been born in 1890, 2 years prior to Sarah1st marriage to HELMORE and 5 years prior to her marriage to My G Grandfather HUTCHINSON and 17 years before his sister was born I know my grandfather died in Hartlepool after 1953 and before 1959 but i cant find his birth or death ( i dont know where he was born. can anyone help me make sense of this???

The first marriage was in 1890/1891 not 1892 so they should be on a census. Marriages Mar 1891 Helmore Thomas Middlesbro' 9d 835 Lavin Martin Middlesbro' 9d 835 McNulty Margaret Middlesbro' 9d 835 Shaw Sarah Middlesbro' 9d 835 Rose

1891: 1891 England Census about Thomas Helmore Name: Thomas Helmore Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relation: Visitor Gender: Male Where born: Exeter, Devon, England Civil Parish: Darlington Ecclesiastical parish: St James Town: Darlington County/Island: Durham Country: England Registration district: Darlington Sub-registration district: Darlington ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Jonathan Cleminson 21 Margaret E Cleminson 6/12 Mary E Cleminson 21 Sarah Helmore 23 Thomas Helmore 24 Eliza Shaw 59 John R Shaw 3 Darlington Thomas Shaw 61 Thomas Shaw 33 Rose

John is listed as a son to Thomas and Eliza but Eliza's 59. Looks like his grandparents are pretending he's theirs. Rose

Birth? Births Jun 1887 Shaw John William Darlington 10a 31 Births Dec 1887 Shaw John Darlington 10a 4 Rose

No John in 1901 but there is Thomas. Is he the brother? 1901 England Census about Sarah Hutchinson Name: Sarah Hutchinson Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: John Gender: Female Where born: Darlington, Durham, England Civil Parish: West Hartlepool Ecclesiastical parish: Stranton All Saints County/Island: Durham Country: England Registration district: Hartlepool Sub-registration district: Hartlepool ED, institution, or vessel: 56 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 110 Household Members: Name Age John Cooper 56 Joseph Cooper 32 Emma Hutchinson 9 John Hutchinson 35 Mary Hutchinson 53 Mary A Hutchinson 5 Mo Sarah Hutchinson 34 Thomas Hutchinson 10 Robert Mann 22 Rose

There's the same John with Sarah's parents in 1901: 1901 England Census about John K Shaw Name: John K Shaw Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation: Son Father's name: Thomas Mother's name: Eliza Gender: Male Where born: Darlington, Durham, England Civil Parish: Darlington Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: Durham Country: England Registration district: Darlington Sub-registration district: Darlington ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 138 Household Members: Name Age Eliza Shaw 69 John K Shaw 13 Thomas Shaw 71 Thomas Shaw 42 Rose

Marriages Sep 1914 Helmore Emma Harrison Hartlepool 10a 255 Births Sep 1891 Helmore Thomas William Middlesbro' 9d 693 Rose

Hi CC&BW! You have 'trawled' the complete BMD indices for your grandfather's death - quarter by quarter? And are you 100% sure he died (and the death was registered) in Hartlepool? If he doesn't show up as Hutchinson, is it possible someone knew his 'secret' and his death was registered in the name of Shaw or Helmore? It would be worth giving it a try, just to eliminate that as a possibility. Victoria

try this link for BDM in hartlepool its free to search and there is a direct link on the site for you to buy the cert from the registry office that the event was first registed there are several births and deaths that could be yours and you can ring the Hartlepool office to confirm the details before you order the cert http://www.teesvalley-indexes.*co.*uk/index.php remove * from address Roy

Thanks all for searching. not able to reply before now as been at work then kids hogged the computer! Ive asked my Aunt. her father John Hutchinson, whome im searching for, died in Hartlepool between 1953 ( my parents wedding )and 1957( my aunts wedding) he died at home with my aunt present My aunt only found out about john's sister being HELMORE at her funeral. i was then able to work backwards to her wedding to Mark Harrison, then to her parents Sarah ( nee shaw) and Thomas Hemore I have John HUTCHINSON and Sarah HELMORE wedding Certificate states sarah father as Thomas RAW but census has them visiting the SHAW family I have my Grandparents wedding certificatemarried Sarah HELMORE widow, which states Johns Father as John Hutchinson Q. is it likely that that John hutchinson officially adopted John Shaw .... If so where can i find out Q If he was a Shaw... can he be legally a Hutchinson on his marriage certificate and Death certificate

Does your aunt know when her dad's birthday was? That might help. Did your aunt register her dad's death? Rose

My aunt is 80 and cant remember a lot. said her dad died at home in Challoner square ,hartlepool of stomach cancer he was survived by his wife Elizabeth. She cant remember her parents birthdays or death dates, which is why Im stuck. i only have a year and age of marriage, so only have an approx year of birth.... She thinks the informer may have been his wife, but again not sure! AAAHHHH!!!! Talk about frustrating!!!

Not sure if this will help or confuse you but, I've spent the last 5 years searching for my gr grandfather's birth i have his marriage and death certs, marriage states him as Joseph Harry Warrington,Father Fred Warrington, death cert he's just Harry Warrington, he died in 1955 aged 56 married in1920 aged 21. with this i searched all bmd records page for page for each quarter for Warrington births from 1890-1905 incase he was iliterate and unsure of his age. and no record of his birth at all. I finally spoke with his youngest daughter 2 weeks ago and found out that he was actually born Joseph Harry Shirt??? his father was Fred Shirt and my great aunt remembers he was always Fred Shirt?? i have no idea or record as to why 'Harry' changed his name to Warrington, or claimed on his marriage cert that his father was a Warrington, i'm not sure if this name change was legal (deed poll) or just his own making. Deed Poll dont keep records of name changes. I finally managed to find his birth (now i knew what i was looking for) and have since found them on 1901 census however i'm unable to pin down Fred as a child and move further back. As i say not sure if this helps but for some reason people will change there name. maybe to avoid call up to wars or other reasons!!

Ive decided to ask the registrar to check a death certificate Ive ordered, then at least ( i hope) i have a date of birth i can search on. My Aunt was shocked when i suggested Her Father may not have been a HUTCHINSON , but a SHAW ! As far as she knew he was hutchinson.... However people change their names for all sorts of reasons, as we know I now also know SNOWDON HUTCHINSON ( JOHN's grandfather left his wife and set up home with his 'housekeeper' Ellen Shields and had 3 other children by her whilst his wife was still alive...... So Im now also searching for their decendants ( found the children registered by different surnames), But ... did they have issue. Ive opened a whole can of worms with this research Dont you just love family secrets!!!!!!