Genealogy Chat

General Records Office and Mothers maiden name.

You can register at the GRO for free to see the mmn’s and it is where you can buy English & Welsh birth, marriage and death certificates from 1837.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results

General Register Office
Official information on births, adoptions, marriages,
civil partnerships and deaths in England and Wales

MMN= Mothers Maiden Name

Can I please ask what is the GRO and what is MMN ?

The GRO site is FREE and includes MMN if the parents were married.

Jink 20

John Burkes death was registered 8th June 1869 Tipton, killed by a fall of coal in a coal pit.

GRO

BURKE, CATHERINE MMN MCNEIL
GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 138

I did also find this for Catherine ? As theres no mothers Maiden name I'd have to get a digital copy of the birth certificate to confirm.

Catharine
Last Name Burke
Birth Year 1867
Gender Female
Mother's Maiden Name
Year 1867
Country England
County Staffordshire
Event Quarter 4
District Stoke on Trent
District Number
Volume 6B
Page 138
Entry Number
Line Number 353
DOR
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Collections from Great Britain, England

Coalmining History Resource Centre
Mining Disasters in Great Britain

I've only included the Staffordshire entries between 1862-1871

OLD BRADLEY. Bilston, Staffordshire. 30th. May, 1862.
BROOKHOUSE. Hanley, Staffordshire. 2nd. March, 1864.
WITHYMORE. Rowley Regis, Staffordshire. 16th November, 1864.
CLOUGH HALL. Newcastle, Staffordshire. 1st. March, 1865.
HOMER HILL. Cradley, Staffordshire. 1st. November, 1866.
TALKE O' TH' HILL. Talke, Staffordshire. 13th. December 1866.
CLATTERSHALL. Stourbridge, Staffordshire. 2nd. March, 1867.
CLATTERSHALL. Brierley Hill, Staffordshire. 11th. March, 1868.
CANNOCK CHASE Cannock, Staffordshire. 15th. May, 1868.
LEYCETT. Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire. 3rd. January, 1871.


Newspaper websites for circumstances of mining accidents or coroners inquests relating to miners (John Burkes) death??

I do have the birth certificates for James and Harriet.

Harriet was born 4.10.73 father not registered so obviously illegitimate.
Harriet was is registered as living @ 4 Wootsons Square Bradley
Mary the mother @ Union House Sedgley.

I think you'll have to accept that John is a brick wall.
We all have them!

For our reference:

John Burke
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name John Burke
Registration Year 1862 [1862]
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration district West Bromwich
Inferred County Staffordshire
Volume 6b
Page 819
Records on Page (Name)
John Burke
Mary Maryatt


Mary Burk
in the 1871 England Census
Name Mary Burk
Age 30
Estimated Birth Year 1841
Relation Head
Gender Female
Where born Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish Sedgley
Ecclesiastical parish Coseley
Town Brierley
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district Dudley
Sub-registration district Sedgley
ED, institution, or vessel 31
Household schedule number 31
Piece 3007
Folio 6
Page number 6
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Mary Burk 30 Head
James Burk 8 Son
Mary Ann Burk 5 Daughter
Catharine Burk 1 Daughter


BURKE, JAMES mmn MARRIOTT
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 712

I don't see the births of Mary Ann or Catherine/Katherine - nor of Harriet 1876, who is on the 1881 census with Mary and siblings, and isn't John's daughter if he died in 1869.

I had hoped there might be baptism records online which might give further clues to John - but there aren't.

Witnesses were Austin Orgill & Emma Maryatt

Mary was living at Ladbury Lane
John was living at Church Street - Both Wednesbury,

Emma Marriott was Christened 6th Nov 1842 St Bartholomews Wednesbury
Father John, Mother Catherine.

If the groom was 21, that means his YOB would be c1841 - not matching either his death or the 1861 census!

Yes that is the one I thought could have been him, I was going by the fact that he is the only one that is a miner. You're right, I dont know his correct age, I just thought that it must be around 1839 as per the details on his death certificate.

His wifes name was Mary Marriott but for some reason its shown as Maryatt
29th April 1862 St Mary's Chapel Wednesbury, The Bride was 20 the groom 21
Both fathers names were John,

Theres a John Marriott died 1851 West Bromwhich

The thing is on closer inspection, I really have no idea which of the John Burkes are the one I'm looking for on the 1861 Census. He was the only Miner so thought that maybe he was the one, but really it could be any of them as I have nothing further to confirm it.

Another difficulty is that you don't know when he was born.

The death cert info suggests he was born c1839, but the 1861 census says c1836.
Age stated at death depends on how accurate the informant's knowledge was.

In fact, as it's such a common name, and you don't know his exact age, how do you know that the man in 1861 is the right one?

For our reference (at least, I'm assuming this is the one you mean ?):

John Burke
in the 1861 England Census
Name John Burke
Gender Male
Age 25
Relation Lodger
Estimated Birth Year 1836
Where born Ireland
Civil parish Wednesbury
Ecclesiastical parish St Bartholomew
Town Wednesbury [ Address: 124 Trouse Lane ]
County/Island Staffordshire
Country England
Registration district West Bromwich
Sub-registration district Wednesbury
ED, institution, or vessel 7
Neighbors
Household schedule number 124
Piece 2033
Folio 16
Page number 25
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Martin Joice 29 Head
Bridgett Joice 39 Wife
Ann Joice 9 Daughter
Margarette Joice 6 Daughter
Walter Joice 3 Son
Martin Joice 1 Son
Ann Berry 60 Mother-in-law
Martin Berry 23 Brother-in-law
Bartly Fox 28 Lodger
John Loftus 40 Lodger
James Price 30 Lodger
John Burke 25 Lodger

There was more than one 1862 John Burke marriage in Staffordshire.
What was his wife's name?

As you have an address for 1861 you can probably trace the nearest pit so you can then research to see if there are any histories of the pit.

Also have a look at the other local Irish as they may state on later census where they came from in Ireland. Young men may have come over together.

Which county in Ireland?

Erika

i havent actually got the marriage certificate yet, although I do have all the information of it from a distant family member who send it me years ago and this is the first time I've really looked at it.
On his Marriage Certificate the fathers name was John Burke the same as his and nearly all the other men in this line.
John was killed in 1969 aged 30 therefore his birth must be approx 1839.
I have actually looked on the 1851 Census but because its a popular name there seems to be quite a few.. How will ever I ever know which one i him ?
Because theres so many with the same name I find it really difficult.

:-(

Irish sites which may be useful to you:

https://www.johngrenham.com/

https://registers.nli.ie/