Genealogy Chat

Help please, Im going round in circles!

I have a baptism record for my grandfather but no birth record. I have searched the GRO for births in the timeframe widening the search to the whole UK and just focussing on the mothers maiden name = NOTHING. His older siblings are both registered. I know his father served in WW1and was KIA in France. Im aware that not having a birth certificate would have caused issues and the fact that his older siblings were registered doesn't make sense.

Now to complicate things I know that my grandfather changed his surname in the 1930s, possibly for the 1939 register before he enlisted. I do not know if he did this officially via deed poll or similar or just via the 1939 register.

Has anyone come across a similar issue? Is it possible that if he did officially change his name that his birth record would be deleted or changed? (I have searched for his later name too)

Any ideas where I go next??

Thanks in advance
Sarah

I doubt that changing his name in later life would cause his birth registration to be adjusted in any way.

If you want helpers to try to find info - names and locations, please.

Is there a birth date on the baptism record? Does it tally with any later records?

Purely for info - WW1 didn’t start until 1914, so the father’s service should have no bearing on the issue, unless he was a regular serviceman, as opposed to one who served only during the conflict

Have you looked for him using just surnames in case they had not chosen forenames at the time of registration?

Welcome to the boards Sarah.

MMN can occasionally be wrong on records eg.
Depending how the question was asked at registration. There are registrations where the maiden name of the Mother's mother was given.

OR any chance that the mother had been married before and gave her former name rather than her maiden name, but correctly for the siblings.

Also first names can change - I have a Gt Gt aunt who was registered as Charlotte but never seen on census, nor death records and a child baptised as Sarah Ann, no birth registration and named on following census. I was convinced they were one and the same person - there was not enough time for 2 births between an older and younger sibling. I could only determine they were one and the same person when later records (in New Zealand initially and then Canada) showed her as Sarah Ann Charlotte.

Hubby's Grandmother's birth wasn't registered c 1900/01, maybe he wasn't.

As ErikaH says - give us as much detail as you can - names year and places of birth of him, siblings and parents etc., plus where they lived and helpers here will see if they can find any info. What was his name and what did he change it to.

Do you know where he was born - try the local register office in case a copy of the registration didn't reach GRO.

Names don't have to be changed by deed poll, but you might need one to change official documents if required

Get a list of possibles from somewhere like freebmd and Then go to the GRO to look at the mothers names.

Have you his death certificate with a birth date. This could narrow things down, but if he changed his name his later records may show a different birthdate.

MMN is on freebmd from late 1911, and OP has said she searched the GRO

Sometimes it is easier to get a list off freebmd, especially when you can narrow down the time or place. When I am having problems elsewhere I find being able to do this greatly helps.

Thanks everyone for your replies, it’s really useful and I wasn’t aware of freebmd, I’d just been using GRO but their search is more clunky than freebmd. I spent an hour searching again today and even just using the surname without first name, mother’s maiden name, district I still cannot find the birth record!

My theory was that his birth was registered later due to the war but I’ve search quite a large date span and no luck.

This is what I know:
William Arthur Butwell born Birmingham 19/4/1913 according to his fathers Army service record and widows pension
Baptism May 4 1913 County of Birmingham
Father Wm Arthur Butwell - died 1915 KIA WW1 in France
Mother Beatrice Louisa nee Chinn
Siblings Julia May birth record 9/5/08 found registered in Solihull, Thomas William birth record 26/1/11 found registered in Birmingham.

Name changed to William James circa 1939, he joined RAF 1939/1940 stationed ant Finningley Notts and then potentially transferred to Army 1940-1945 ish. My father (his son) was born 1942 and he didn’t know his Dad for the first few years as he was away in Army for WW2

We don’t know much about why he changed his name, 2 theories in the family. 1 was to join the Army (maybe he wouldn’t have been allowed due to record or similar?) 2 was that he fell out with his family (I do know that his mother remarried his fathers brother/his uncle and he had younger half siblings).

Any help gratefully received
Sarah

Changing his name certainly would not have been due to any restrictions on joining the Army.

Did he drop his second forename?

The First World War was a long way off when he was born :-S :-S

In 1912, he is recorded as being 9 years 2 months old

Is he on the 1939 register?

When/where did he die?

Was puzzling over how he could have been recorded in 1912. Then it clicked - typo :-D

1921…………..

Fold3 result
UK, WWI, Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923

Note slight change in recorded birthdates to those posted
Sr's Service record shows William Arthur Jr DOB as 19/04/13

Full Name Butwell, Wm Arthur
Service Number 8104
Gender Male
Rank Pte
Regiment Royal Welsh Fusiliers

Relative 1
Butwell, Beatrice Louisa
Relative 1 Relation To Head
Widow
Relative 1 Birth Date
27 Jan 1887

Relative 2
Butwell, Julia May
Relative 2 Relation To Head
Child
Relative 2 Birth Date
9 Aug 1908 ***************

Relative 3
Butwell, Thomas William
Relative 3 Relation to Head
Children
Relative 3 Birth Date
26 Jan 1911

Relative 4
Butwell, William Arthur
Relative 3 Relation to Head
Children
Relative 4 Birth Date
19 May 1913 ***********************

EDIT- William's Father service record shows father's name as Butwell, WILLIAM HENRY
UK, WWI, British Army Service Records, 1914-1920

Marriage Date: 30-Sep-1907

Just on the wild off-chance that he was adopted by the Butwells, these children don't appear in later records:

BROWN, ALEXANDER HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 388

CHESLIN, JAMES -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 413

EVANS, BERNARD MARTIN -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 542

EVANS, LEONARD -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 615

GRIFFITHS, GEORGE LESLIE -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 434

RALPH, NORMAN -
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 579


Not that there's any way for us to investigate or prove adoption..

Birmingham, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1922 for William Arthur Butwell May 4 1913

Hockley, St Saviour
1899-1912

Address recorded
5 Villa Street
Cottage Place
Hockley
St Saviour

1921 Census Of England & Wales
195, Great Russell Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Beatrice Louisa Butwell Head Female 1886 35 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Household Duties Second -

Julia Mary Butwell Daughter Female 1909 12 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

Thomas William Butwell Son Male 1911 10 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

William Arthur Butwell Son Male 1912 9 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England - -

William Henry Butwell Father-in-law, boarder Male 1863 58 - Silver Polisher Out Of Work Cliffords Silver Smith

Julia’s birth registered OND 1908

Thanks everyone, I have the baptism record and pension ledgers (also noted the different dobs, typo?). It’s the actual birth register I cannot find.

In 1939 register I believe he had changed his name to James and was living in a boarding house in Camphill Birmingham prior to enlisting.

He died in 1975 in Birmingham as William Arthur James, it was at his funeral that my parents found out that he was originally a Butwell to much shock! He had remarried to Mary Bruce (his sister in law) in 1971.

I've had a look on the Gazette to see if there was a name change listing printed there.
Nothing found

I have been in contact with Sarah. She provided me with a WW2 Service number for William Arthur Butwell/James. National Archive records provided a date of birth against that Service number and I have passed the DOB information on to her.