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SylviaInCanada
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6 Feb 2013 00:18 |
Keith
it would indeed be easier!!!
My own grandfather always celebrated his birthday on December 25 ................ so we always had to make time on Christmas Day morning to cross town and wish him Happy Birthday.
We also understood that he was born in 1886
Nope .........
after he died, my uncle found a birth certificate hidden in a drawer .................. He was born Jan 9 1885.
He WAS baptized on Dec 29 1886, along with his younger sister born in December 1886!
Maybe his parents found it cheaper to celebrate birthday and Christmas together ............... but why did Granddad keep it going after getting his birth certificate?
To add to my confusion ......................
he married in 1902 ............. and told porkies on his marriage certificate!!
He was actually 17 years old, but said he was 19
His wife said she was 20, when she was actually 19
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DazedConfused
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5 Feb 2013 14:30 |
My gt/gt/grandfather is listed as deceased on several of his childrens marriage certificates and he was alive and well and married to a much younger woman. A family rift led to some of his children never speaking to him again.
The young lady he married very quickly following the death of his first wife, was a neighbour and contemporary of many of his older children. And they went on to have 3 more children.
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KeithC
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5 Feb 2013 11:28 |
Sylvia,
What a pity that Time Machines haven't been invented yet! It would make things so much easier to go back and actually talk to our ancestors!
Keith :-)
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SylviaInCanada
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4 Feb 2013 21:17 |
Keith
information on a death certificate is even more misleading!!!
The problem is that it is another person (the "informant") giving the information, no documentation has ever been required ............... and even spouse or children can get things wrong, let alone sons/daughters-in-law, or neighbours, care givers, etc.
It all depends on "hearsay" ................ what the deceased person told people when still alive.
The only statements that you can rely on being true for an adult are:-
date and place of death cause of death name and address of doctor (and coroner if involved) name (probably), address and relationship of informant.
Everything else .................. name of deceased, age, occupation, marital status .............. is subject to "hearsay".
The age and birth date depend entirely on what she/he told people ........ and many people told "porkies" about their age throughout life, for whatever reason.
so, basically, you have to take the information with a pinch of salt, and not rule out a death certificate on first glance because the age or name is different from what you expect.
sylvia
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KeithC
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4 Feb 2013 11:07 |
Thank you Sylvia and InspectorGreenPen. I'm just beginning to realize that a high proportion of the info on certificates, registers and indexes may be wrong or misleading, although if I can I don't rely on Transcriptions!
Keith
:-S
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InspectorGreenPen
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4 Feb 2013 08:33 |
Rule of thumb:-
Deceased = deceased (most probably) Not Deceased = deceased or living Blank = illegitimate
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SylviaInCanada
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4 Feb 2013 04:27 |
Keith
It often depended on just how the vicar worded the question as to whether the word deceased appears on a marriage certificate.
If he said "What is your father's name and occupation?"
The answer would often be just that ................ the bride or groom would not volunteer the information "........ but he's dead"
If the vicar asked "What is your father's name and occupation, and is he still alive?"
then he would get the full answer.
But you can also get wrong answers IF the father had left the family ................. often the bride or groom would say he was dead when he was still alive, because it was easier to say that than to say "I don't know because I haven't seen him for xxx years" ................... also less shaming!
sylvia
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KeithC
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3 Feb 2013 17:50 |
Thank you Helen for all that info! I had already found Nicholas and Louisa Hudson on the 1871 census, but no sign of Elizabeth Ann. As he was already 70 then, he probably didn't make it to her wedding. Why she gave his occupation as a Labourer is anybody's guess! I mistakenly thought that as Nicholas was missing from the 1861 census he had already died. Thanks again. Regards, Keith
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Helen
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3 Feb 2013 16:40 |
For ref: Nicholas Hudson's occupation is a Miller in all census.
1851 England Census
Name: Nichols Hudson Age: 49 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1802 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Louisa Hudson Gender: M (Male) Where born: Thorp Abbette, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Eyke County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: Miller
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image Registration district: Plomesgate Sub-registration district: Earl ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 58 Piece: 1802 Folio: 379 Page Number: 15 Household Members: Name Age Nichols Hudson 49 Louisa Hudson 29 Nichole William Hudson 3 Mo
1861 England Census about Louisa Hudson (Nicholas elsewhere) Name: Louisa Hudson Age: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820 Relation: Wife Gender: Female Where born: Fostwich, Suffolk, England Civil parish: Norwich St Clement Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Norwich Sub-registration district: Coslany ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 151 Piece: 1211 Folio: 106 Page Number: 27 Household Members: Name Age Louisa Hudson 41 Richard W Hudson 10 James E Hudson 9 Rebecca L Hudson 7 Elizabeth A Hudson 4 Susannah Hudson 2
Possible ?
1861 England Census about Nicholson Hudson
Name: Nicholson Hudson Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Thorpe Abbotts, Suffolk, England Civil parish: East Dereham Town: East Dereham County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Mitford Sub-registration district: East Dereham ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 51 Piece: 1242 Folio: 55 Page Number: 8 Household Members: Name Age Robert Rawlings 69 Keziah E Rawlings 50 Nicholson Hudson 55 Samuel Pyne 30 Leah Pyne 10
1871 England Census about Nicholas Hudson (still alive in 1871) Name: Nicholas Hudson Age: 70 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Louisa Hudson Gender: Male Where born: Shipdham, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Shipdham Town: Shipdham County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Registration district: Mitford Sub-registration district: Shipdham ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Household schedule number: 130 Piece: 1843 Folio: 70 Page Number: 23 Household Members: Name Age Nicholas Hudson 70 Louisa Hudson 50 Nicholas Wm Hudson 20 James Hudson 18 Susanna Hudson 12 Maryann Carolina Hudson 10 George Hudson 7 Anna Maria Hudson 3
? Marriages Sep 1850 HUDSON Nicholas Woodbridge 12 693 Pamment Louisa Woodbridge 12 693
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Nicholas Hudson Name: Nicholas Hudson Estimated Birth Year: abt 1800 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1877 Age at Death: 77 Registration district: Mitford Inferred County: Norfolk Volume: 4b
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KeithC
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3 Feb 2013 16:16 |
Thanks Jan. Yes I have an Elizabeth Ann Hudson on the 1861 census in the Norwich area. I will have another look for her in the 1871 census. Regards, Keith
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brummiejan
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3 Feb 2013 15:39 |
There is no such requirement Keith, so he might be either living or dead! However, if you are looking at a miller you might have the wrong man. Do you have Ann on a census prior to marriage? Jan
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KeithC
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3 Feb 2013 15:27 |
have just found an image of the original Marriage Register for my Great Grandmother, Elizabeth Ann Webster (nee Hudson) for 11th November 1876 when she married Tom Webster. She was born in 1857 in Norwich. What I would like to know is, when the father's name and occupation are listed, was it a requirement that the Registrar made a note if the father was deceased? I ask this because his name is listed as Nicholas Hudson with an occupation of Labourer. The Nicholas I had been tracing died between 1857 and 1861 and was a Miller! It doesn't help that she was born in Norwich and got married in Leeds! Any help would be most welcome.
Regards, Keith
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