Genealogy Chat

Im trying to help someone look more info on their family

.But need to find out what it means when it says"was abused unto death".Would that mean he was murdered ?

Thanks Pam

Without knowing the story or circumstances it sounds more like manslaughter than murder, but difficult to say.

If someone was consistently neglected, starved, beaten or whatever until they became so weakened that they died then that description would probably fit.

Someone posting a very similar request:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hhlocalhistory/message/244

Ha ha thats who im helping.I live in Hayes Middlesex so i'm going to the library tom to see if i can find anything for him.

If i get no luck i might go to the local church.Do you know if i have to give writen notice to see a churches parish records

Sorry, got no idea about that.

Thanks anyway,

I googled Eli Dupree died 1741, and got these 2 reports


London Daily Post And General Advertiser, July 14, 1741 : Front ...
newspaperarchive.com/london-daily-post-and.../1741-07-14/
Check out Page 1 of London Daily Post And General Advertiser from July 14, 1741. ... the Yearly Value of And the Bankrupts of and in after the Death of Richard in ... the Houfe of Trueman $ George for the Murder of Eli Dupree at Hayes in and ...

Page 2, London Daily Post And General Advertiser, July 13, 1741 ...
newspaperarchive.com/london-daily-post-and.../1741-07.../page-2/
Next Edition (July 14, 1741) >> · << Previous Edition (July 11, 1741) ... for robbing Gerrard in Jervis Trueman George for the Murder of Eli Dupree at Hayes ... has great other Extemporaneous die and of neglected by the former are here treated ...




it's a subscription site





sylvia

Sylvia your a star.Thanks very much might have a bit more to work on .

Thank Pam

I managed to pick this out from the first reference, on free view. It doesn't make a lot of sense!!!


Jervis Ann and Ann for robbing Gerrard in the Houfe of Trueman $ George for the Murder of Eli Dupree at Hayes in and many other curious Trials all and exactly July 12. his Ships the Lark and Crawfor




and for the second ......................


Trials of Elizabeth Mary Deaths - the for a and Elizabeth Nicholas Thorn George for j Mary Roufe and Mary and robbing Elizabeth Minton at j Sarah and Joice for Ann for robbing James Patrick John and on for Highway Robberies and Jervis Ann and Arm for robbing Gerrard in Jervis Trueman George for the Murder of Eli Dupree at Hayes in and many other corions Trials all fully and exactly Day is -

again by googling

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?path=sessionsPapers%2F17410701.xml

close up url

Reference Number: t17410701-18

25. George Johnson of Hayes , was indicted for that he not having God before his eyes &c. On the 23d of May , on Eli Dupree feloniously, willfully, and of his malice aforethought, did make an assault, and with both his hands along the common highway for the space of 2 surlongs and upwards the said Dupree did drag, and with both his feet on the legs of the said Dupree divers times did kick, and he the said Johnson, with both his hands, to and against the ground the said Dupree divers times did throw and cast down, giving him by the said dragging, &c. divers mortal bruises on the head, back and legs, of which he instantly died .

The Counsel for the Prosecution having opened the Indictment and the Evidence; the Witnesses were called.

Benjamin Brown . I am 11 Years old, and if I don't speak the truth God will not bless me.

Counsel. Do you know the Prisoner?

Brown. Yes, his Name is George Johnson .

Counsel. Can you recollect seeing him do any thing to any body at Hayes?

Brown. Yes, but I can't tell what Day it was; it was on a Saturday Night, between 10 and 11 o'Clock.

Counsel. What did you see done?

Brown. I saw him put the Man into the Ditch, hard by the Angel at Hayes.

Counsel. What did you hear him say to the Man?

Brown. He damn'd his Blood, and the old Man said, pray Sir don't damn my Blood. The Prisoner then said he was a pilsering Rogue, and went to throw him over the Gate.

Counsel. Was that before or after he put him into the Ditch?

Brown. Before he put him into the Ditch, and the old Man fell back again, and hit his Head against the Gate.

Counsel. Do you think it was to assist the Man to get over the Gate?

Brown. No, the Prisoner took him up in his Arms, and threw him from him, and he fell with his Head against the Gate.

Counsel. Did the Man make any Complaints after that?

Brown. He cried out of his Leg, but I did not see any Thing done to it. After the Prisoner had thrown him into the Ditch, I desired him to take him out; he did so, and laid him in a Cart-Rut.

Counsel. What became of the Prisoner after this?

Brown. He went in at the Angel and I went Home.

Counsel. Did you ever see the old Man again?

Brown. No Sir, not 'till next Day in the Afternoon.

Pris. Q. You say it was between 10 and 11 in the Evening, was there any Light there?

Brown. I can't tell whether there was or not, but I was just by the Prisoner.

Pris. Q. How far from the Angel does your Father live?

Brown. He lives at Coombes, which is 13 Miles from the Angel.

Pris. Q. How came you to be out at this time of Night?

Brown. My Mother and my Sister and I lived at my Aunt's, about 2 Stones throw from the Angel, and my Sister called me out and said she thought some Soldiers were quarrelling.

Q. Did you know the Prisoner before?

Brown. Yes, and I was just by him all the Time.

Counsel. When you went Home did you tell any Body what you had seen?

Brown. Yes, I told my Aunt there was an old Man put into the Ditch almost as old as her.

cont.

Mary Brown was called next, but was of so tender an Age, that it was thought proper she should not be sworn.

Elizabeth Clark . Last Saturday was three Weeks, about ten o'Clock at Night, I saw the Prisoner at Hayes.

Counsel. What did you see him do there?

Clark. I saw him bringing an old Man along the Road: I asked him if he had got a drunken Man, and he said, he was no more drunk than I was, but that he was an idle Fellow and a Rogue, and wanted to get into some Body's House when he saw a Conveniency. He said he had brought him from Woodrosse's, where he had lain long enough if he had been drunk to have been sober again, for he had been ever since 1 o'Clock coming from the Adam and Eve, which is about a Mile distant. My Sister keeps the Angel, and I told him she was very much obliged to him for bringing him here, and he said his Intention was to carry him out of the Parish, but d - n him, he would duck him well first. The old Man hearing him say so, said in a low Tone; then I will cry out Murder: The Prisoner replied d - n his Blood, hear the Rogue, now he says he will cry out Murder. Then a young Fellow took the old Man up out of the Road, and laid him gently under the Gateway: I said, I believe the poor Soul was drunk, and wished somebody would take care of him; and then I saw the Prisoner take him up in his Arms in Order to throw him over the Gate; he fell short, and his Head hit upon the Gate, and the Prisoner said, d - n him, there let him lie. The old Man then cried out of his Leg, and one Mary Roberts asked him what was the Matter with it, but he made no Answer.

Counsel. How long did the Deceased lie there?

Clark. I can't tell; I heard no more of him for a quarter of an Hour, and then he lay at my Sister Walker's Door, and the Prisoner said, come Mrs Walker, and see me put this Money into the Rogue's Pocket, or else to-morrow he will swear I have robbed him. He put 14 d into his Pocket, and then I went away and saw no more of him till next Morning. I asked the Prisoner what he had done with the old Man, and he said, d - n him, he had ducked him several Times.

Counsel. What passed after this?

Clark. I heard no more till a Man went by in the Night, who called to us, and said, we had turned a Man out of Doors drunk. I got out of Bed, and looked out of the Window; the Deceased was then lying on the Ground, and a Man went to help him up, and said, d - n him, he will not stand. Presently afterwards another Man came by, and said the Man was dying, so I got up, and my Sister and I went down Stairs. She asked the old Man if he would have any Thing; and he moved his Hand and Head, but could not speak. We called the Neighbours about us, and I put a little Rum, Water and Sugar in a Sp oon into his Mouth, but I can't tell whether he swallowed any of it.

Counsel. Did you look at his Head or any part of him?

Clark. After he was dead, I looked at his Legs, and there was a sort of a scratch on one of them. I did not take Notice of his Head, neither did I see him strip'd, but I saw his Clothes afterwards, and he had about half a pound of Raisins and a piece of Bread in his Pocket all wet. His Shirt was dry just on the Stomach, and the other Part was wet. He lived 'till 5 o'Clock in the Morning and then died.

Counsel. Was any Body brought to look on him?

Clark. No, there was no Coroner or Surgeon sent for to examine him.

Counsel. Do you apprehend, as the Deceased fell against the Gate, that could be the occasion of his Death?

Clark. I can't tell; I am not a judge of that, but I do not believe it was.


cont ....

Christopher Marshal . One Saturday in May, about 5 weeks ago, I had occasion to travel that Way, and saw much such a man as the Prisoner pulling another rudely along the Road. I said, what makes you use the Man so roughly; you will break his Legs; don't you see his Legs bend under him? I imagined the Man was drunk, and so I did not stay, but kept jogging on, and left my Man behind, who saw more of the Affair.

John Brett . I was coming from London with the last Witness, and saw the Prisoner standing by a poor Man who was in the Road. He made an offer to take him from the Ground, and I asked him what he was doing? He said he was a drunken, sorry Fellow, and he would get him out of the Parish. I desired him to take the man out of the way of the carts and waggons, and he said he design'd to put him out of the Parish, but would duck him a little first, and that would bring him to himself. The Deceased then seemed to be weary and weak, and was lying on his Back, and desired the Prisoner several times to let him alone.

Counsel. Did you apprehend at that time that he was a sick or a dying Man?

Brett. No, he seemed to me to be weary and weak. I have known the Prisoner about 3 Years, and never heard that he did any Mischief to any Body before this Misfortune happened.

Sarah Johnson . I know the Prisoner; his name is George Johnson . One Saturday Night in May last, I was going along the Road at Hayes, and saw a little bustle in the Road. I went up, and found the Deceased and the Prisoner together. I asked him what was the matter, and he said, Here is a pilsering Rogue that has lurked about the Road ever since 3 o'Clock to rob somebody, and would not tell from whence he came, nor whither he was going, and if he would not speak, d - n him, he would throw him into the Pond. The Deceased made no answer to this, so the Prisoner took him up with his Knees bending under him and laid him along at a little distance. The Prisoner then said he was a pilsering Rogue, and he would have him out of the Parish for fear he should rob somebody in the Night. He took him by the Arm to the Angel Door , where he fell down on his Back, and I turned myself about, and thought I heard him cry Murder ! What happened after this I can't tell, but next morning, I heard that the Man was dead.

Pris. Q. Did you see me do any Thing to him?

Johnson. No, he only endeavoured to help him along to get him out of the Parish, and did not misuse him.

Frances Ashman . I saw the Prisoner drawing the Man along at Hayes. He had him under his Arm drawing him very easily along, and the Man desir'd him to let him alone. I saw him the next morning when he was dead, but I did not examine him.

Q. Did you see the Prisoner do any Thing to him that you think could be the occasion of his Death?

Ashman. No, I can't say I did.


cont .....

Mary Roberts . On Saturday the 23d of May, I was going out of my own House, and hearing a noise, I asked the Neighbours what was the matter, and was answered, they thought it was a drunken Man. In a little time I saw the Deceased lie prostrate on the Ground, and the Prisoner was pulling him up, and insisting on his going away. I said to the Prisoner, Coachman, let the Man alone, when he is come to himself he will go away; and he replied, d - n it, this comes of listning to a parcel of foolish Women. The old Man then complained of his Legs, and the Prisoner still insisted on his going away, and if he did not he said he would throw him into the Pond. I did not hear the Deceased cry Murder, though I imagine he did by the Answer which the Prisoner made, for he said, Now you hear the old Rogue, he cries Murder.

Counsel. Did you see the Deceased any Time afterwards?

Roberts. I saw him the next morning after he was dead. There was a Bruise on the top of his Head, and I saw no other marks except a few black and blue spots on his Legs, but how they came I can't tell, for I did not see the Prisoner offer any violence to him, only in pulling him up.

Q. Do you think that Bruise which you saw on the Deceased's Head, was the occasion of his Death?

Roberts. I can't say indeed. It was a Bruise, but it was not swelled, neither was the Skin broke. These Breeches and Garters are the same which the Deceased wore at that Time.

John Pierce . I saw the Deceased when he was dead, about 5 o'Clock in the morning, and saw the Bruise on his Head; and 2 or 3 spots on his Legs, but the Skin was not broke.

Counsel. Do you think those were the occasion of his Death?

Pierce. I can't say; - They might be the occasion of his Death for any Thing I know.

John Dupree . I can swear to these Breeches and Garters; they are the same that my Brother Eli Dupree wore when he left Gloucester. On the Tuesday morning before he was murdered, I sent him to London about some Worsted-Yarn. He was 75 Years of Age, and as quiet a Man as ever lived on the Ground, and as to his being drunk, he has not for these 32 Years last past drank any Liquor but what went in with a Spoon.

Esther Sidey . I have known the Deceased 30 Years. On Thursday the 22d of May he came to my House in Cow Lane, and brought me a Letter to go to the King's-Head in the Old-Change to receive some Rent. He lay at my House that Night, and the next morning I rose at 5 o'Clock, and boiled him a quart of Milk for his Breakfast, which he eat up very heartily, and he said he was going directly for Gloucester, and hoped to be at Home by the Tuesday following. He was in perfect Health and had these very Breeches and Garters on when he left my House. As to his being in Liquor, I don't believe he has drank any Thing but Milk these 30 Years



cont .....

DEFENCE.

Prisoner. I never saw the Man before in my Life, therefore I hope you will take it into Consideration that I had no spite or malice against him.

Michael Gibbons . I keep the Red Lion Inn in Gray's-Inn Lane, and have known the Prisoner 12 Years; I never heard that he was either a quarrelsom man, or addicted to drunkenness.

Mintey Cook. I have known him 7 Years, and never knew him guilty of breaking the King's Peace in my life, but always behaved well in all company. I never heard him give any abusesul (abusive) language; neither do I think he would murder any Body, and I don't know that ever he abused or desranded any of his Majesty's Subjects whatsoever.

Job Smith. I have known him 6 or 7 Years: I have been in his company a great many Times, and know that he would rather put up with an Injury than resent it.

Robert Todd . I have known him some Years: He always was a very quiet honest man, and I never knew him guilty of a bad Action in my Life. Acquitted .







sylvia

Wow i cant believe what you have found,it just shows if you know what your doing you can find anything.

I cant thank you enough. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 :-)

you're very welcome!



sylvia

Well! that story beats anything I've seen on the telly tonight.

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D